I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
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@liaizon I think Bsky/atp has already won the protocol war in the sense that it will be the dominant mainstream federated social media platform of the future (unfortunately). I think there's a few reasons why this happened. one is that it was a closer like for like X/Twitter replacement during the musk takeover and only had a single instantiation at the time vs Masto/fedi having a bunch and needing an explainer about them. I also think that therev was a decent amount of FUD that was put out at the time about fedi being confusing that hindered its adoption. lastly I think "big" accounts were put off by the idea of server level defederation. Someday I think someone will write the post-mortem of the Twitter succession crisis and I feel these 3 things will be key points for why bsky gained momentum
@Bike I mostly agree about the reasons you mention here. I guess the part that I am uncertain is what exactly "won" will look like. I don't see the current fediverse going away, but I do fail to see any path at this getting mainstream adoption like bluesky is currently getting. and that narrative concerns me. I think there are still avenues that must be taken to work together on a shared future path.
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@Bike I mostly agree about the reasons you mention here. I guess the part that I am uncertain is what exactly "won" will look like. I don't see the current fediverse going away, but I do fail to see any path at this getting mainstream adoption like bluesky is currently getting. and that narrative concerns me. I think there are still avenues that must be taken to work together on a shared future path.
@liaizon for me both protocols have very different success conditions. In both cases having more users off the main platforms of tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, etc is a condition. but for bsky I think it looks like total users but for fedi in think it's number of servers too.
I think that the difficulty of deploying servers was part of the reason we didn't get larger adoption. I think what fedi is great at -smaller communities having both internal and external conversations - was hampered by those groups needing to have a server deployed. The communities that would have benefited went to discord instead, and the people whov wanted microblogging wanted universal reach.
I dont know how solveable this problem was for fedi given "it's too hard to make a webserver" has been a problem since geocities. -
@liaizon no. what could have possibly prompted me to do this? I don't use the thing.
@liaizon sorry, that came out too confrontational.
after further consideration I don't think I currently care enough about this topic to engage with it at the necessary depth to have a meaningful conversation. not a super techy person anymore. -
@liaizon sorry, that came out too confrontational.
after further consideration I don't think I currently care enough about this topic to engage with it at the necessary depth to have a meaningful conversation. not a super techy person anymore.@elexia thanks for the reply, its a vast expanse of jank pretty much everywhere and very hard to keep up with everything.
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@elexia thanks for the reply, its a vast expanse of jank pretty much everywhere and very hard to keep up with everything.
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs
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@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs
@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network
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@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network
@laurenshof I think the age of the developers is not to be undervalued here, I feel like there are a lot more young ATP devs then on fedi
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I will say here again I am very much on team fediverse and the anarchist anticapitalist free culture side of networks. Bluesky has some "help" with dirty money vc bullshit. There are many things Bluesky (the company) is doing that is awful (like verifying ICE ffs and deleting Palestinian accounts) and those are things I have been continuously pointing out as well.
lol cool cool
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lol cool cool
@liaizon "extreme ideology" like thinking genocide bad hmm...
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lol cool cool
@liaizon "I don't want to be on the same instance as ICE"
"You must be what people call a radical" -
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Paywalls may be an important causal factor for the decline of democracies. I wonder if there's any study aboit this.
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They'll have to *really* fast track it if they want to pass it before we yeet them into the rubbish bin of history. Government by announcement only gets you so far when your polls are collapsing and your own guys are saying you should resign.And even if they do, the next government can repeal it easily, because hasty legislation reactively banning things doesn't have any complicated infrastructure to tear down or budget gaps to cover. It can just go away.
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@dthompson yes.
My point is that this friction is actually valuable.
I can’t actually prevent someone on mastodon from reading my public toots by blocking them, but blocking them still prevents most people from doing so.
⇒ needs to get UX right. In Hyphanet we usually got that part wrong (e.g. told people "you’re totally insecure" when they actually were safe against the 99% of people who don’t patch their node to spy on their friends).
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@ArneBab the point is that we don't want to give users a false sense of security by saying that we can prevent something we cannot. we can surely add friction, but that's it.
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@dthompson Not completely. But a communication system can make it hard enough for Bob to invite someone else that it doesn’t often happen in practice.
Bob can always copy, but if a link to the chat by default requires a login by Bob, most Bobs won’t want to do the work required.
That’s the effect of defaults and convention.
