I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"

[jfred@jawns.club]

@liaizon If my understanding of things is correct, this seems like the kind of thing that could be accomplished in the fediverse using ActivityPub C2S. Which of course depends on C2S actually getting some use... but a more generic ActivityPub server with varying C2S frontends could get us there, I think

[ree@shitposter.world]

@sun @liaizon I hope one day I can be something so we have pleroma being a little popular. How I see it it's free software (gnu) vs Linux again but with social media fontends like do you like bootleg Twitter or bootleg tweet deck

[ree@shitposter.world]

@ruben @liaizon I'm waiting for people getting sick of twitter etc.

[ree@shitposter.world]

@liaizon blusky is one website so far so centralized it's just twitter lite.

[ruben@friendship.quest]

@stefan@stefanbohacek.online @liaizon Yeah, I'm definitely thinking more from the microblogging point-of-view, which I use more. I can see pixelfed, something like piefed, or a brand-new type of application eventually going there.

I think it could be mainstream, but I don't feel strongly about whether it should.

The culture/s fostered in the fediverse seem to me at-odds with current mainstream social media culture: connection vs consumption, control vs convenience, small and close-knit vs firehose, etc. I think a culture shift more than a technical/ux one would determine this.

I would still like to see all those technical and user-friendliness improvements come to fedi though.

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@jfred there are lots of paths that could help, this being one of them, but some of those paths would actually need a combined effort and be widely promoted so that the ecosystem actually starts adopting them and that takes quite alot of time

[stefan@stefanbohacek.online]

@ruben All very good points!

And honestly, I also care less about fediverse being mainstream than about growing the diversity here.

But also, I really do want us to move beyond corporations being the middlemen of our social connections. Honestly, if ATProto takes off, Bluesky eventually folds, and the future is independent Atmosphere communities, that's really not so bad.

I care a lot less about the tech stack than who controls it.

(Okay, I will never get used to the ATProto-style usernames, for that reason alone, I hope the fediverse "wins".)

[fivexhotel@autonomous.zone]

@liaizon ohh wafrn looks very cool

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@fivexhotel try it out. They already have an Android app too that's very good

[bike@social.translunar.academy]

@liaizon I think Bsky/atp has already won the protocol war in the sense that it will be the dominant mainstream federated social media platform of the future (unfortunately). I think there's a few reasons why this happened. one is that it was a closer like for like X/Twitter replacement during the musk takeover and only had a single instantiation at the time vs Masto/fedi having a bunch and needing an explainer about them. I also think that therev was a decent amount of FUD that was put out at the time about fedi being confusing that hindered its adoption. lastly I think "big" accounts were put off by the idea of server level defederation. Someday I think someone will write the post-mortem of the Twitter succession crisis and I feel these 3 things will be key points for why bsky gained momentum

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@Bike I mostly agree about the reasons you mention here. I guess the part that I am uncertain is what exactly "won" will look like. I don't see the current fediverse going away, but I do fail to see any path at this getting mainstream adoption like bluesky is currently getting. and that narrative concerns me. I think there are still avenues that must be taken to work together on a shared future path.

[bike@social.translunar.academy]

@liaizon for me both protocols have very different success conditions. In both cases having more users off the main platforms of tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, etc is a condition. but for bsky I think it looks like total users but for fedi in think it's number of servers too.

I think that the difficulty of deploying servers was part of the reason we didn't get larger adoption. I think what fedi is great at -smaller communities having both internal and external conversations - was hampered by those groups needing to have a server deployed. The communities that would have benefited went to discord instead, and the people whov wanted microblogging wanted universal reach.

I dont know how solveable this problem was for fedi given "it's too hard to make a webserver" has been a problem since geocities.

[elexia@catcatnya.com]

@liaizon sorry, that came out too confrontational.
after further consideration I don't think I currently care enough about this topic to engage with it at the necessary depth to have a meaningful conversation. not a super techy person anymore.

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@elexia thanks for the reply, its a vast expanse of jank pretty much everywhere and very hard to keep up with everything.

[elexia@catcatnya.com]

@liaizon indeed

[laurenshof@indieweb.social]

@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs

[laurenshof@indieweb.social]

@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@laurenshof I think the age of the developers is not to be undervalued here, I feel like there are a lot more young ATP devs then on fedi

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

lol cool cool

[squeakypancakes@sunbeam.city]

@liaizon "extreme ideology" like thinking genocide bad hmm...