Am I the only one left in the world who still believes that the Dark Ages were dark??
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Am I the only one left in the world who still believes that the Dark Ages were dark?? It seems everything I read now asserts how the medieval era was "so...much...more!" They go on to describe the case, and if I had to choose a metaphor it would be coming out of a fine French restaurant fed to satiety and being accosted, hey, this rotten raw carrot, it's not nothing! No. It's not nothing. But it's not much, either.
I think it's all a scam because they ran out of subjects for doctoral theses.
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Am I the only one left in the world who still believes that the Dark Ages were dark?? It seems everything I read now asserts how the medieval era was "so...much...more!" They go on to describe the case, and if I had to choose a metaphor it would be coming out of a fine French restaurant fed to satiety and being accosted, hey, this rotten raw carrot, it's not nothing! No. It's not nothing. But it's not much, either.
I think it's all a scam because they ran out of subjects for doctoral theses.
As I probably wrote you some time ago, in Italy we've got a very well known historian, Alessandro Barbero, who's strongly fighting the idea that middle age was somehow "dark".
Funny enough, the only middle age historian I have among my friends told me the same thing 30 years ago, when we met the first time.
Anyway, if you want to go a bit deeper into this topic this is one of the many contributions by A. Barbero.
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As I probably wrote you some time ago, in Italy we've got a very well known historian, Alessandro Barbero, who's strongly fighting the idea that middle age was somehow "dark".
Funny enough, the only middle age historian I have among my friends told me the same thing 30 years ago, when we met the first time.
Anyway, if you want to go a bit deeper into this topic this is one of the many contributions by A. Barbero.
@max this is in fact the very thing I am watching right this minute that caused me to make the post!!! Also Alberto Angela. It's part of my homework for Italian to keep me interested in the grammar because I like the subject matter, but now I'm hoarse from yelling at the screen...
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As I probably wrote you some time ago, in Italy we've got a very well known historian, Alessandro Barbero, who's strongly fighting the idea that middle age was somehow "dark".
Funny enough, the only middle age historian I have among my friends told me the same thing 30 years ago, when we met the first time.
Anyway, if you want to go a bit deeper into this topic this is one of the many contributions by A. Barbero.
Just in case you want to go even deeper, here are some podcasts. 😁
Ius primae noctis
dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/a…The flat Earth
dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/a…The fear of year 1000
dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/a… -
@max this is in fact the very thing I am watching right this minute that caused me to make the post!!! Also Alberto Angela. It's part of my homework for Italian to keep me interested in the grammar because I like the subject matter, but now I'm hoarse from yelling at the screen...
Sorry, my English is far worse than your Italian, I can't understand if you're in the team "middle age was dark" or in the team "middle age wasn't dark" 😁
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Sorry, my English is far worse than your Italian, I can't understand if you're in the team "middle age was dark" or in the team "middle age wasn't dark" 😁
@max I'm so sorry. My Italian is far worse, I assure you, and I won't even try to speak it here (but would love if you spoke Italian to me here!). I hope you have an automatic translator. I still think that the Dark Ages were (mostly, protractedly) dark and dead, and find the arguments presented to the contrary a bit flimsy and strained. Still I enjoy the topic, and this should be about vocabulary and grammar for me, not academic criticism.
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Am I the only one left in the world who still believes that the Dark Ages were dark?? It seems everything I read now asserts how the medieval era was "so...much...more!" They go on to describe the case, and if I had to choose a metaphor it would be coming out of a fine French restaurant fed to satiety and being accosted, hey, this rotten raw carrot, it's not nothing! No. It's not nothing. But it's not much, either.
I think it's all a scam because they ran out of subjects for doctoral theses.
@Tarnport The question for me is which paradigm I'd want to live under. I'm basically with you, but I think it has been oversold how dead and "dark" that period was.
It does read to me like the rule of law, among other things, was a lot more arbitrary and the corruption was enshrined, so to speak.
The thing that I chafe it is all of these people in the here and now wanting to reach back to that period and DIY everything. Trade existed, but it was far more limited. 1/
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@Tarnport The question for me is which paradigm I'd want to live under. I'm basically with you, but I think it has been oversold how dead and "dark" that period was.
It does read to me like the rule of law, among other things, was a lot more arbitrary and the corruption was enshrined, so to speak.
The thing that I chafe it is all of these people in the here and now wanting to reach back to that period and DIY everything. Trade existed, but it was far more limited. 1/
Trade was geographically limited, probably (I'm not so good at history), but I can remember banks were invented in the middle age the same for checks and bills of exchange.
In the middle age the rule of law wasn't arbitrary it was just unbalanced, on the side of nobilty privileges. However, rules were written and there were courts where you could ask for your rights to be respected (if you were so high in the hierarchy to have rights).
Is this a step back with regards to what there was before the "dark age"? Well... roman empire had slavery, if a slave killed his master the family had the right to kill ALL his slaves (men, women and children). At the end of Spartacus's revolt 6000 prisoner's were crucified on the road between Capua (the city were the revolt begun) and Rome.
Saying that civilization went down in the middle age (that's the reason behind being considered a dark age) is risky...
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@max I'm so sorry. My Italian is far worse, I assure you, and I won't even try to speak it here (but would love if you spoke Italian to me here!). I hope you have an automatic translator. I still think that the Dark Ages were (mostly, protractedly) dark and dead, and find the arguments presented to the contrary a bit flimsy and strained. Still I enjoy the topic, and this should be about vocabulary and grammar for me, not academic criticism.
Conosco l'inglese abbastanza bene (almeno la parte scritta mentre sul parlato no, lì non me la cavo per niente bene), non ti preoccupare, era solo per dire che non mi era chiara la tua posizione.
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Trade was geographically limited, probably (I'm not so good at history), but I can remember banks were invented in the middle age the same for checks and bills of exchange.
In the middle age the rule of law wasn't arbitrary it was just unbalanced, on the side of nobilty privileges. However, rules were written and there were courts where you could ask for your rights to be respected (if you were so high in the hierarchy to have rights).
Is this a step back with regards to what there was before the "dark age"? Well... roman empire had slavery, if a slave killed his master the family had the right to kill ALL his slaves (men, women and children). At the end of Spartacus's revolt 6000 prisoner's were crucified on the road between Capua (the city were the revolt begun) and Rome.
Saying that civilization went down in the middle age (that's the reason behind being considered a dark age) is risky...
@max @Tarnport @dnkboston I've always been given to believe that the term "Dark Ages" refers only to the first half or so of the middle ages: In Britain I assume that would be the period after the Romans left, up until maybe the Norman Conquest or some time around then. So when we think about enormous stone castles and shiny plate armour, that's all late medieval. But the viking invasion, Bede, Cuthbert, Oswald; they were all in the Dark Ages. Please correct me, I'm no historian!
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@max @Tarnport @dnkboston I've always been given to believe that the term "Dark Ages" refers only to the first half or so of the middle ages: In Britain I assume that would be the period after the Romans left, up until maybe the Norman Conquest or some time around then. So when we think about enormous stone castles and shiny plate armour, that's all late medieval. But the viking invasion, Bede, Cuthbert, Oswald; they were all in the Dark Ages. Please correct me, I'm no historian!
Well... actually the shiny plate armour arrived late in the middle age, close to the end.
Armours must be resistant and light (well... as light as an iron suit can be 😁). They need technical skills and tools that took time to discover and master.
At the beginning they just used thick leather covers, then moved to chain mail and only at the end they could build armours.
EDIT: Sorry... I read again your post and maybe you were saying exactly the same thing. But I'm not 100% sure so I'll leave my post.
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Well... actually the shiny plate armour arrived late in the middle age, close to the end.
Armours must be resistant and light (well... as light as an iron suit can be 😁). They need technical skills and tools that took time to discover and master.
At the beginning they just used thick leather covers, then moved to chain mail and only at the end they could build armours.
EDIT: Sorry... I read again your post and maybe you were saying exactly the same thing. But I'm not 100% sure so I'll leave my post.
@max @Tarnport @dnkboston But where do you stand on the Dark Ages?
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@max @Tarnport @dnkboston But where do you stand on the Dark Ages?
What do you mean?
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Trade was geographically limited, probably (I'm not so good at history), but I can remember banks were invented in the middle age the same for checks and bills of exchange.
In the middle age the rule of law wasn't arbitrary it was just unbalanced, on the side of nobilty privileges. However, rules were written and there were courts where you could ask for your rights to be respected (if you were so high in the hierarchy to have rights).
Is this a step back with regards to what there was before the "dark age"? Well... roman empire had slavery, if a slave killed his master the family had the right to kill ALL his slaves (men, women and children). At the end of Spartacus's revolt 6000 prisoner's were crucified on the road between Capua (the city were the revolt begun) and Rome.
Saying that civilization went down in the middle age (that's the reason behind being considered a dark age) is risky...
I've just found this about trades in middle age which is somehow amusing.
You know about Dante and you probably also know he fell in love with Beatrice Portinari (whose father was a banker).
That girl got married to Simone De' Bardi who was a member of one of the richest family in Florence. They ran a trade company with branches all over Europe, in Africa and Asia too.
We're here around 1300 (not sure the exact week 😁) but that company was probably founded some time before. This also adds to the idea that trades were quite developed in the middle age too.
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