For all the Proton fans
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@r3dr3clus3 @skinnylatte If you don't have the data, you can be ordered to give it up by whomever, and you can't. Proton mail claims privacy, but it in fact saves enough data to identify a single individual.
The headline is not biased. Proton claims things they actually can't uphold. This is not the fault of the customer. Stop blaming the victim.
@Pyrogenesis "The headline is not biased" - so I'll ask again: Did Proton help the FBI? Or did Proton comply with a Swiss Court Order, and the Swiss government helped the FBI?
A more unbiased headline might be, "Proton turns over user payment information because of Swiss Court Order".
I'm not blaming a victim. I'm demanding better activism. We live in a world where organized activism is becoming more and more crucial, and it's the responsibility of activists, especially those organizing activism, to understand the capabilities and limitations of their communications networks.
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying I want people to realize that it doesn't matter if this was Proton, or Tuta, or some other "private" service, and realize that they are all beholden to legal systems that determine the minimal amount of data that must be collected, the length of time it has to be retained, and how personally identifiable that information is.
So if I'm "blaming the victim" by saying, "There is a valuable lesson to be learned here, and it's not just dunking on Proton" then sure, that's what I'm doing and I stand by it.
EDIT
For anyone going, "tHiS iS wHy I uSe TuTa!", here's a link to a page with a big red banner that Tuta rejected 75% of all court orders in 2025. Which is very cool, don't get me wrong - that's super cool - but what are those other 25%?
https://tuta.com/blog/transparency-reportAm I more into Tuta than Proton at this point? Yep. Do I think Proton was really the issue this time? Nope.
Stay sharp.
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@thestrangelet yeah this is my actual problem with them. No company is gonna refuse a court order from the government they operate under. I’m a paid proton account girl rn but I’m maintaining my tutamail and may switch due to the genAI pushing in proton.
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte they also did that to a climate fan. I've long said like Telegram is not so private as people think - use systems like cyberfear (and their related email system).
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte @protonprivacy ¿Explanation?
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@skinnylatte This headline is incredibly biased. Did Proton help the FBI? Or did they hand over data to the Swiss government that the Swiss government ordered them to, and then the Swiss helped the FBI unmask an anonymous protester?
I keep seeing this post pop up in my feed with permutations of "WHY PROTON DO THIS!?" -- Because they were legally ordered to.
We're doing a disservice to ourselves for not recognizing the bounds of the privacy that Proton, or Tuta, or any other "private" email service provides, and looking at this moment as a failure by the provider - when really it's the failure of a user to recognize the technical & legal bounds of of their comms services to keep them anonymous.
The lesson here, i think, is about opsec, and knowing the bounds of the tools we're employing for whatever our goals are.
Would be good to know if they were legally compelled to turn over the (billing?) data …
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@skinnylatte Whats the problem? Court order said give the info, they gave the info. They're not a pirate email provider operating in international waters in a submarine disguised as a whale.... they're a business who focuses on privacy.
sorta pearl clutching. tell me one business anywhare besides a swiss bank perhpas thats gonna NOT comply with the law
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@skinnylatte Anyone who thinks Proton, Tuta or any other company is going to disobey a court order to protect a user is delusional. Proton states upfront that for absolute anonymity, use a free account (or pay with cash or whatever) and only connect using their onion site. They've never given up the content of emails (cause its encrypted in such a way that they can't access). They've never given any log info for VPN use (cause they have a strict no logs policy). Its as simple as that.
my account is free
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@yc99.bsky.social Tuta isn’t even as good as Proton
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If they can't structure their service in a way that avoids the collection and storage of personally identifiable customer data, then they have no business claiming they offer privacy. This is like charging a premium for the world’s most secure door lock when a burglar can easily enter your house by breaking a window.
@freediverx @taylor @boojum @skinnylatte
Privacy is not anonymity.
Encryption allows the details of a message only be read by sender and receiver. That’s privacy. Email otherwise is inherently insecure and not private. Your email address and the subject are plain text in transit.It’s not who you are, it’s what you say that is protected.
Keeping financial records may very well be part of Swiss law. I know they have to keep financials for 10 years.
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@skinnylatte Anyone who thinks Proton, Tuta or any other company is going to disobey a court order to protect a user is delusional. Proton states upfront that for absolute anonymity, use a free account (or pay with cash or whatever) and only connect using their onion site. They've never given up the content of emails (cause its encrypted in such a way that they can't access). They've never given any log info for VPN use (cause they have a strict no logs policy). Its as simple as that.
@theangelofinsanity @skinnylatte Thank you for writing this (re legal standing of a business) for me :)). Yes, there is so much delusions everywhere.
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Would be good to know if they were legally compelled to turn over the (billing?) data …
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If they can't structure their service in a way that avoids the collection and storage of personally identifiable customer data, then they have no business claiming they offer privacy. This is like charging a premium for the world’s most secure door lock when a burglar can easily enter your house by breaking a window.
@freediverx @boojum @skinnylatte How do you charge somebody's credit card regularly on a subscription basis without storing any PII or working with a third party that stores PII?
This is like charging a premium for the world’s most secure door lock when a burglar can easily enter your house by breaking a window.
In which case it would be ridiculous to blame the door lock company when somebody breaks your window.
I think a more apt analogy is that it's like a hotel charging a premium for a high-privacy room, but still giving their card records to the FBI when they come with a warrant for those records, telling them what credit card paid for which room.
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte I never liked protonmail, they push you to use their centralized service, it is better to use Delta Chat for encrypted email and you can encrypt with any server or even host your own, no need to use a server in the hands of a specific company, also migrating from one server to another without losing your chats and contacts
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If they can't structure their service in a way that avoids the collection and storage of personally identifiable customer data, then they have no business claiming they offer privacy. This is like charging a premium for the world’s most secure door lock when a burglar can easily enter your house by breaking a window.
@freediverx @taylor @boojum @skinnylatte
> If they can't structure their service in a way that avoids the collection and storage of personally identifiable customer data, then they have no business claiming they offer privacy
Well they have, they give you the option of mailing them cash to pay for your service, that the person in question chose to use their credit card just shows bad judgment of their threat model and bad OPSEC.
> This is like charging a premium for the world’s most secure door lock when a burglar can easily enter your house by breaking a window.
Exactly, you hit the nail on the head, the person had bad opsec, like using Tor and Tails to go ahead and sign into your Gmail address before doing something the state disapproves of. Tech really isn't the issue in this case
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte This is very misleading. Proton never claimed you would be anonymous. They do not collect user data, the maximum they can have (if I'm not mistaken) is your IP, backup email and credit card, if you paid with one. The rest is end-to-end encrypted.
In this case, the account was a premium one that was paid with a credit card. You have ways of getting the subscription more privately, and this was a case of bad OpSec.
Please don't spread FUD.
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte There is no anonymity on the nets. Even for very versed in nuances of surveilance hackers. 25 years ago we could use mixmasters and other aonymization techniques. And all privacy seeking users could have been deanonymized by a simple cepstral analysis of text produced. Some cypherpunks who knew tried to counter this using with their wanna-be-anon persona unusual capitalization, peculiar typos, and were sprinkling their posts with mannerisms and other distractive goodies perl allowed. It was not much helpful, ok, it usually could give a day or two of leg, because sample posts needed to be manually marked for topical analysis, but it was not possible to hide from determined adversary. No LLMs, just a few tools built for linguists.
Today so many netfarers want 'absolute anonymity' yet demand from us techies that it all must support stickers and must run on Android/iOS device that is costantly beaming not only their whreabouts, but also their food, flowers, body parts. And this fancy new furniture.
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@r3dr3clus3 @skinnylatte If you don't have the data, you can be ordered to give it up by whomever, and you can't. Proton mail claims privacy, but it in fact saves enough data to identify a single individual.
The headline is not biased. Proton claims things they actually can't uphold. This is not the fault of the customer. Stop blaming the victim.
@Pyrogenesis @r3dr3clus3 @skinnylatte Maybe don’t use a traceable credit card if you’re that worried about privacy.
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte I live in Canada and I use https://typewire.com . It is quite new and has a few glitches though.
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For all the Proton fans
@skinnylatte@hachyderm.io gpg密钥在服务提供商手里本身就是一个笑话
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@boojum @skinnylatte
What's the point of paying for a privacy-focused email provider that doesn't provide privacy?@freediverx @boojum @skinnylatte I’d want my money back. There should be a class action because everyone has been actually paying for nothing.
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Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@phabrizio quando i bambini vogliono un giocattolo e non viene loro comprato fanno i capricci e per ripicca rompono le cose.
Forse avremmo dovuto darglielo quel ca**o di Nobel per la pace, così non avrebbe incendiato il mondo.
Solo madre natura ed il colesterolo alto possono far finire tali follie.
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えらいことになってきた
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L'Italia è un paese talmente fascista che nel servizio pubblico televisivo si affida il racconto della politica estera a riservisti dell'esercito italiano che ostentano senza problemi e senza reazione alcuna il simbolo neofascista della croce celtica.
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@mora prevedo altri missili e bombe forse a cuba
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Le piazze iraniane e le nostre illusioni coloniali
https://www.kulturjam.it/costume-e-societa/le-piazze-iraniane-e-le-nostre-illusioni-coloniali/
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Building a Heading Sensor Resistant To Magnetic Disturbances
Light aircraft often use a heading indicator as a way to know where they’re going. Retired instrumentation engineer [Don Welch] recreated a heading indicator of his own, using cheap off-the-shelf hardware to get the job done.
The heart of the build is a Teensy 4.0 microcontroller. It’s paired with a BNO085 inertial measurement unit (IMU), which combines a 3-axis gyro, 3-axis accelerometer, and 3-axis magnetometer into a single package. [Don] wanted to build a heading indicator that was immune to magnetic disturbances, so ignored the magnetometer readings entirely, using the rest of the IMU data instead.
Upon startup, the Teensy 4.0 initializes a small round TFT display, and draws the usual compass rose with North at the top of the display. Any motion after this will update the heading display accordingly, with [Don] noting the IMU has a fast update rate of 200 Hz for excellent motion tracking. The device does not self-calibrate to magnetic North; instead, an encoder can be used to calibrate the device to match a magnetic compass you have on hand. Or, you can just ensure it’s already facing North when you turn it on.
Thanks to the power of the Teensy 4.0 and the rapid updates of the BNO085, the display updates are nicely smooth and responsive. However, [Don] notes that it’s probably not quite an aircraft-spec build. We’ve featured some interesting investigations of just how much you can expect out of MEMS-based sensors like these before, too.
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Dogs of war. Cartoon for Dutch newspaper Trouw.
