I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
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@liaizon this story feels a lot like the solid project https://solidproject.org/
Big splash at the beginning, some nerds get involved... but it's been years now, and when I tried to actually use one of the apps using it, UX was atrocious and I had to join a matrix room to get it working. Now I know I'm not the l33test hacker, but come on!
@liaizon I honestly feel a little bitter. I know I haven't been working on the protocol, or committing to repos, but I've done a lot of advertizing and advocacy over the years. In the faith that the developers were acting in our interests...
And I know they have been! I don't want to sound ungrateful.
Ach I don't know. Just feels a bit like I/we wasted (some of) our time.
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon anything cool like @HolosSocial happening on AT?
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I hope you don't mind @nicobao I federated your reply over here. As the cofounder and CTO of a company "Agora helps people overcome disagreement and find consensus, for more democratic and efficient decision-making." I would recommend doing some research into the ideologies that underline all of the decentralized protocols that exist and where they came from.
@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.
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@liaizon for me both protocols have very different success conditions. In both cases having more users off the main platforms of tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, etc is a condition. but for bsky I think it looks like total users but for fedi in think it's number of servers too.
I think that the difficulty of deploying servers was part of the reason we didn't get larger adoption. I think what fedi is great at -smaller communities having both internal and external conversations - was hampered by those groups needing to have a server deployed. The communities that would have benefited went to discord instead, and the people whov wanted microblogging wanted universal reach.
I dont know how solveable this problem was for fedi given "it's too hard to make a webserver" has been a problem since geocities.@liaizon ultimately I think we will come to regret letting the opportunity for a freer social internet slip thru our fingers in 2022. but I'm also just very pessimistic about ATP and their relay-centered architecture -
@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.
@liaizon as of the underlying protocols, again you don't know me, so stop the ad hominem attack, it feels like harassment. I stand with what I say. The very reason why you're here saying you prefer the Fediverse underlying ideology of the protocol is PRECISELY because it's not the only one. Lots of libertarians in the early days of the internet and still to this day. You despise these capitalists I know. But they have the right to exist you know?
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
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@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.
@nicobao you involved yourself in this discussion by quoting my post and calling me an extremist. I'm not taking it personally anymore then you are here. Glad to have a public discussion about the ideological basis of protocol alignment!
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lol cool cool
@liaizon this is harassment.. you're getting your crowd to shit on me and misinterpret my words. I never said anything against Palestine. Anti capitalism and anarchism is by definition a far left ideology in pretty much every democracies world wide. This is just facts. I'm entitled to my opinion, so what? You guys are acting like mobs.
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@liaizon Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
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@liaizon @ruben I think fediverse could still become mainstream, but clearly not through Mastodon.
I had pretty high hopes when Tumblr originally announced integrating ActivityPub, of course that's not happening anymore.
Less so with Meta's Threads, given the company's history.
Flipboard and Ghost are still putting in the effort, which is great, but those are not platforms used by regular social media users.
We really just need a new fediverse platform that's user-friendly. Seems like that's nearly impossible without VC money though, so I don't know.
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@nicobao you involved yourself in this discussion by quoting my post and calling me an extremist. I'm not taking it personally anymore then you are here. Glad to have a public discussion about the ideological basis of protocol alignment!
@liaizon I never called YOU an extremist. I called the ideology you mentioned "anarchism, anti capitalism" extremist. It is objectively extremist since it's far left. OWN IT. Your problem is taking it as an insult. It is not an insult for me. As we discussed on Bluesky it is simply not my cup of tea. And what I dislike the most in these ideologies is precisely what you showcased here: mob mentality.
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@liaizon "extreme ideology" like thinking genocide bad hmm...
@squeakypancakes @liaizon this is defamation. I was talking about anarchism and anti-capitalism. Not Palestine. Being extremist can be good, it's just being on the extreme of the political spectrum. But the spectrum can move too. It is not an insult. You guys are mobs, it's insane. Where is civility?
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@liaizon "I don't want to be on the same instance as ICE"
"You must be what people call a radical"@neauoire @liaizon this is defamation. I was talking about anarchism and anti-capitalism. Not Palestine. Being extremist can be good, it's just being on the extreme of the political spectrum. But the spectrum can move too. It is not an insult. You guys are mobs, it's insane. Where is civility here? It's supposed to be part of the moderation rules btw.
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
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@squeakypancakes @liaizon this is defamation. I was talking about anarchism and anti-capitalism. Not Palestine. Being extremist can be good, it's just being on the extreme of the political spectrum. But the spectrum can move too. It is not an insult. You guys are mobs, it's insane. Where is civility?
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@squeakypancakes @liaizon what am I oppressing by saying anarchism and anti-capitalism is an extremist ideology? It's far left. Far. You guys are oppressing ME
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@squeakypancakes @liaizon what am I oppressing by saying anarchism and anti-capitalism is an extremist ideology? It's far left. Far. You guys are oppressing ME
@squeakypancakes @liaizon And even if I'm wrong and it's not extremist. What I am oppressing by saying those words and barely disagreeing with you? (though this was a post on Bluesky I was not even talking to you)
You guys need seriously introspection
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lol cool cool
@liaizon also I don't think people know the difference between extremist and radical
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@Bike I mostly agree about the reasons you mention here. I guess the part that I am uncertain is what exactly "won" will look like. I don't see the current fediverse going away, but I do fail to see any path at this getting mainstream adoption like bluesky is currently getting. and that narrative concerns me. I think there are still avenues that must be taken to work together on a shared future path.
@liaizon @Bike seems like the "mainstream" is still very much TBD. In the big picture it has almost no adoption, is losing active users by the day and all the supposed other applications for ATproto are virtually unused currently.
5 million MAU really isn't much and the startup is also probably going to have to find more funding soon.
Of course it's possible that all the excitement leads to newly found success but it doesn't seem like there's anything suggesting that is an inevitability.
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Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@liaizon and this BTW is why the platforms that compose the Fediverse can and are used also by fascists and their friends (Gab, “Truth” Social, etc) yet those instances are NOT part of the Fediverse.
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@artemis Sometimes, some people don't want to see. And there is no person more blind than the one who doesn't want to see. But, no, that doesn't excuse them.
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@michaelc depends on your definition of fun
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so, what do you do for work?
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@foolishowl @artemis @shadowfals Until the early 2000s? It seems to me that the Overton window has been shifting to the right constantly since the Reagan era, and it has worsened in the latest two decades. There hasn't been a leftist on mainstream US TV for half a century. Printed media isn't much better, you have to look for very specific outlets like Jacobin in order to get anything left of billionaire bootlicking.
