@glyph Did you quote post something?
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@bjorndown @_L1vY_ @glyph @xgranade I go to work by bus, and I've made a habit of always carrying a book with me, so I can read on my commute. *Very* highly recommended.
(This morning it felt like me and the woman sitting next to me were a kind of cozy time travellers. I was reading my book and she was doing some knitting; almost everyone else were doomscrolling on their phones.)
@bjorndown @_L1vY_ @glyph @xgranade A semi-related observation: I'm often the only bus passenger reading a book - but when I'm not, the other book-readers are almost always young. I almost never see my fellow middle-ageds reading books, but it's not *that* unusual to see a teenager or two reading something.
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@mttaggart my suspicion is that when this happens we are going to find out that there is a huge predisposition component. there will be people who say "ah well. guess I'm a little rusty writing unit tests now, but time to get back at it" and we will have people who will go to sleep crying tears of frustration for the rest of their lives as they struggle to reclaim the feeling of being predictably productive again
@glyph @mttaggart this is why I don't play MMOs or gatchas and I don't touch LLMs and I mask in public.
I. Am. Vulnerable. To. These. Things. They. Are. Dangerous.
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@cainmark @nyrath @glyph Yes, and another interesting one is astrology columns.
The ELIZA effect was surprising to its naive computer programmers, because they thought it should be obvious ELIZA was just a "parlor trick" because anyone could see how it worked.
But astrology columns were equally obvious. When a mass printed column is read by thousands of readers, it's obviously impossible for it to be a personal message to you specifically. And yet ...
However, non computer programmers were not just unaware that ELIZA was just a pathetic couple of pages of code, they had no feelings for how many pages of code was enormous or miniscule. All they saw was what ELIZA outputed.
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@mitsuhiko @FediThing @glyph It's as much a nice side-effect as the redistribution of personal items acquired from unlocked sheds and yards on the aftermarket is.
Keep in mind there's a huge swath of grey between open source and large corporate lawyer-backed death+90yr IP copyrights
@phl @FediThing @glyph digital goods cannot be stolen. They can only be duplicated.
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May I suggest doing the best you can, in collaboration with anyone else you work with who agrees with you/us, to put your own guardrails around your LLM use.
Build a set of effective prompt contexts and quality prompts for frequent tasks.
Where there are places it provides real speed advantages, finding relevant examples of something you need, producing a first draft or perhaps a copy edit (no idea if it can actually do that), use it. Otherwise, don't.
Etc.
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@bjorndown @_L1vY_ @glyph @xgranade A semi-related observation: I'm often the only bus passenger reading a book - but when I'm not, the other book-readers are almost always young. I almost never see my fellow middle-ageds reading books, but it's not *that* unusual to see a teenager or two reading something.
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@nyrath @isaackuo @cainmark @glyph in the case of ELIZA its script/algorithm for directing how it converses with the user was simple and predictable enough that after a day or so, maybe even a few hours or less, an intelligent user can experience the AHA moment where they realize how they've been manipulated. the abstraction leaks through. cracks appear. and it shatters their willing suspension of disbelief.
with LLMs I'd argue that since their script/algorithm and database is so much bigger they can keep the user in their honeymoon period longer. one might go months, if ever, before the illusion is broken. for younger or less sophisticated users that honeymoon period will likely last longer, possibly forever
corollary: youngest people might be at most danger of getting warped by heavy/longtime LLM use. and the already mentally ill, or IQ-challenged. now add in a culture with easy access to guns, and hostile nation states running influence ops online, at scale. BAD
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@FediThing @phl @glyph LLMs also don’t do literal recall. They work not too dissimilar how you work if you implement something from what you learned before.
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@datarama @xgranade I have other anxiety issues (OCD does not really resonate broadly, but anxiety+ADHD can produce a similar effect) and I sometimes feel waves of INTENSE rage when I open up my Apple TV and it's playing a loud trailer for a show I don't really want to get into, or launch Steam and find that it's forgotten the preference to open to the Library and not Store tab. We need strict regulation for ALL of these attractive "algorithmic" nuisances
@glyph @xgranade I've unfortunately struck a mental health jackpot: I'm diagnosed with OCD, generalized anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder. Also, I'm on the autism spectrum. I'm actually grateful that I'm actually able to work (but presently terrified because I'm well-aware that it's only a relatively small niche - and one that a trillion-dollar industry is currently betting on destroying - that I can work productively in).
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@nyrath @isaackuo @cainmark @glyph in the case of ELIZA its script/algorithm for directing how it converses with the user was simple and predictable enough that after a day or so, maybe even a few hours or less, an intelligent user can experience the AHA moment where they realize how they've been manipulated. the abstraction leaks through. cracks appear. and it shatters their willing suspension of disbelief.
with LLMs I'd argue that since their script/algorithm and database is so much bigger they can keep the user in their honeymoon period longer. one might go months, if ever, before the illusion is broken. for younger or less sophisticated users that honeymoon period will likely last longer, possibly forever
corollary: youngest people might be at most danger of getting warped by heavy/longtime LLM use. and the already mentally ill, or IQ-challenged. now add in a culture with easy access to guns, and hostile nation states running influence ops online, at scale. BAD
@synlogic4242 @nyrath @cainmark @glyph FWIW, I think young people are doing a LOT better than older people when it comes to sussing out AI is bad.
For one thing, and this is the big one, schools constantly tell them not to use AI and that AI is cheating and that AI is often wrong. Many directly have class assignments where they are told to have LLM AI write a paper for them and their assignment is to research all the stuff it got wrong. That's an eye-opener.
So, the young folks already use
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@cainmark @nyrath @glyph I mean - if tarot card reading or crystal ball reading was a 1-on-1 person to person experience, the astrology column was a mechanized mass produced machine version.
Or those gumball machines with astrology scrolls. Or fortune cookies. It should have been obvious they were just mechanistic devices, just like ELIZA.
And yet ...
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@synlogic4242 @nyrath @cainmark @glyph FWIW, I think young people are doing a LOT better than older people when it comes to sussing out AI is bad.
For one thing, and this is the big one, schools constantly tell them not to use AI and that AI is cheating and that AI is often wrong. Many directly have class assignments where they are told to have LLM AI write a paper for them and their assignment is to research all the stuff it got wrong. That's an eye-opener.
So, the young folks already use
@synlogic4242 @nyrath @cainmark @glyph the slang expression, "That's AI" to describe something that's stupid BS.
In contrast, older people my age and older seem completely committed to reality denial. (I'm in the same age group as Elon Musk and Musk-head morons.)
They desperately need a Batman to slap upside their Robin faces and there never will be that Batman for them.
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Lovely choice of location there...
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@glyph @datarama @xgranade Aside: Steam Big Picture mode drives me into an absolute rage. I never ever EVER want my laptop UI completely hijacked and for some weird reason Valve won't let people disable it from accidentally starting. It's not like Valve is following the standard enshittification playbook of forcing it to be enabled (see AI features in Firefox, Windows, etc.) but there's no way to just simply disable it from being inadvertently activated. It's maddenly difficult to turn off if you've never used it before (like exiting vi) and - aside from git or pre-commit or Word mulching a report at 3pm on the Friday it needs to go out - Steam Big Picture mode is one of the few immediate rage-inducing things that can happen with any of my computers. It's completely gratuitous and it's infuriating that I can't ever prevent it from accidentally running.
My reaction is a bit extreme but it is completely reasonable to not want certain software to ever run on a device you own, period.
@arclight @datarama @xgranade are you talking about the “home” button on a game controller launching it? this has never tripped me up for some reason but Apple has a similar thing in macOS which they shipped with no way to disable for like 3 years (thankfully there’s a toggle now) so I get the frustration
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@glyph I have a friend who spent the last year+ battling a kratom addiction. I get the analogy, and why you chose it, but using an addiction framing to talk about LLM usage is an analogy that risks really trivializing addiction (Is there a biological, genetic component to LLM usage? Is LLM usage linked to underlying psychological disorders like anxiety and depression?). I understand how you got here, and don’t think you’re wrong exactly, but I do wish you hadn’t made this argument.
@jacob I sure don’t like it either. but now that we have national news stories where chatbot use is directly linked to suicides, including teen suicides, divorces, mental health hospitalizations and a variety of other extreme outcomes, I don’t think that the addiction comparison risks trivializing it. We really aren’t taking the risks seriously enough.
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@jacob I sure don’t like it either. but now that we have national news stories where chatbot use is directly linked to suicides, including teen suicides, divorces, mental health hospitalizations and a variety of other extreme outcomes, I don’t think that the addiction comparison risks trivializing it. We really aren’t taking the risks seriously enough.
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Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@magostinelli bello!
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Anarres del 9 gennaio. Le squadracce di Trump. Palestina. Geografie del dominio. Iran. Crepe nel regime…Anarres del 9 gennaio. Le squadracce di Trump. Palestina. Geografie del dominio. Iran. Crepe nel regime…
@anarchia
ll podcast del nostro viaggio del venerdì
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@GrapheneOS
OK. But do you see how you're alienating many passionate members of your own community?As far as I can see, you've sent over a hundred posts in the last 24 hours. Nearly all of them arguing with people.
I get that you feel the need to defend yourselves - but, is that the impression you want people to have of the project?
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Ho incluso un easter egg nel sito, vediamo chi l trova! Con questo indizio è facilissimo: quanto fa 202x2=?
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@aeva proposal to rename them to Andy (C) and Brian (Eno), respectively
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@Edent Tuta made a problematic post with many inaccuracies which has now been heavily edited to address many of those. Our replies were made in a different context but are being presented as if they were replies to the current post on their website.
We think encrypted email services including but not limited to Tuta have serious privacy and security issues. Tuta addresses some of these issues not addressed elsewhere but also has issues of their own. That was not the focus of our responses.
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Wobedraggled (@wobedraggled.bsky.social)
https://bsky.app/profile/wobedraggled.bsky.social/post/3mc3qx5pxnc27
> What are we doing as a species?
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@EveOfTheFuture correct
