Machine translations are often brought up as a gotcha whenever I criticize LLMs.
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron I'm willing to guess that machine translation of prose may serve two uses: firstly, as an assist for human translators (by preparing a very rough first cut, which they then have to refine), and secondly, as an assist for human editors in figuring out which foreign-language-works to pay a human translator (with or without AI assistance) to work on (translation costs money: knowing where to spend it is important). But those are assistive roles, not human-replacing ones.
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron Crunchyroll also experiments with machine translated subtitles for Japanese anime, and the community (anglophone or not) is not happy with it.
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron - I think the most recent translated book series I read was Liu Cixin's Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy,* translated into English by Ken Liu and Joel Martinsen. I don't know a word of Chinese, but I can't imagine machine translation doing these great works any justice.
* Later adapted into the Netflix series 3 Body Problem
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron As someone who translates into English, I appreciate you saying this.
It's true there's a lot of very good literature in English, but I'm pretty convinced that the majority of anglophones don't know what they're missing by not reading translated books.
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@Gargron ironically, I feel translations have become worse with the rise of LLMs. For example, I recently saw a Microsoft KB article that had a table with Yes / No in its cells, translated to German as Ja / Nr.
@inanedirk @Gargron Microsoft uses machine translations on their pages extensively, and the results are a mess. They even OCR and translate the screenshots, so you end up with screenshots that have wrong text crammed over the English original, making them doubly useless.
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron plus doesn't everyone do the test of translate then translate back? They are garbage in a way that even a machine could recognize as garbage.
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@Gargron I'm willing to guess that machine translation of prose may serve two uses: firstly, as an assist for human translators (by preparing a very rough first cut, which they then have to refine), and secondly, as an assist for human editors in figuring out which foreign-language-works to pay a human translator (with or without AI assistance) to work on (translation costs money: knowing where to spend it is important). But those are assistive roles, not human-replacing ones.
@cstross @Gargron I have a friend who worked for years as a translator (English to French) but in recent years he found that he was no longer being asked to translate but to "post-edit" machine translations. It was taking him just as long, paying him less, and destroying his soul.
He now works as a tour guide.
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron I've just bought an English translation of Mikhail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita. I wondered which was the best translation, and found a website with multiple translations of the opening page. It was really interesting how different they were. The one by Diana Burgin's and Katherine Tiernan O'Connor was the clear winner for me.
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@Gargron thank you. When writing the German subtitles for No Other Land I had to basically do it all by hand because the context window was so narrow it got everything wrong that could be lost in translation.
@ErikUden @Gargron I work for Swiss Broadcast Company. Our devs did a wonderfull job in this regard. I get autotranslated subtitles that are amazingly good. It ain't literature but very good. It's a two tier system that joins the captions, then translation and then reconstructing the captions. Translation is done by Claude. Langs are not that big of a challange (DE FR IT EN). Only Rumantsch is a challange. Claude 3.5(!) Is pretty darn good though. Claude 4+ not so much
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@Gargron I'm willing to guess that machine translation of prose may serve two uses: firstly, as an assist for human translators (by preparing a very rough first cut, which they then have to refine), and secondly, as an assist for human editors in figuring out which foreign-language-works to pay a human translator (with or without AI assistance) to work on (translation costs money: knowing where to spend it is important). But those are assistive roles, not human-replacing ones.
@cstross @Gargron
Machine translations are more of a hindrance than a help, for translators. If you don't know both languages well, having an automated dictionary lookup could possibly be useful - but if you're a translator, and especially a translator of fiction, having a nuanceless draft will only take more time to figure out. And it will be irritating time, because reading mistranslations is a pain. Editing one's own drafts is hard enough!As to B: Editors rely on readers, reviews /...
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Machine translations are often brought up as a gotcha whenever I criticize LLMs. It's worth pointing out two things: Machine translations existed decades before LLMs, and yes, machine translations are useful. However: I would never in my life read a machine translated book. Understanding what a social media post is talking about in rough terms? Sure. Literature? Absolutely not. Hell, have you ever seen machine translated subtitles? It's absolute garbage.
@Gargron Yeah you most definitively have to thoroughly proof read that stuff which kinda defeats the point.
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Machine translations are often brought up as a gotcha whenever I criticize LLMs. It's worth pointing out two things: Machine translations existed decades before LLMs, and yes, machine translations are useful. However: I would never in my life read a machine translated book. Understanding what a social media post is talking about in rough terms? Sure. Literature? Absolutely not. Hell, have you ever seen machine translated subtitles? It's absolute garbage.
Kille Bill -> 'Kill rekening' (Kill the invoice)
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@inanedirk @Gargron Microsoft uses machine translations on their pages extensively, and the results are a mess. They even OCR and translate the screenshots, so you end up with screenshots that have wrong text crammed over the English original, making them doubly useless.
@inanedirk @Gargron Oh, and not just pages, it seems that at least parts of Windows are machine-translated nowadays, because some texts make absolutely no sense and use extremely weird word combinations.
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@cstross @Gargron
Machine translations are more of a hindrance than a help, for translators. If you don't know both languages well, having an automated dictionary lookup could possibly be useful - but if you're a translator, and especially a translator of fiction, having a nuanceless draft will only take more time to figure out. And it will be irritating time, because reading mistranslations is a pain. Editing one's own drafts is hard enough!As to B: Editors rely on readers, reviews /...
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@Gargron I'm willing to guess that machine translation of prose may serve two uses: firstly, as an assist for human translators (by preparing a very rough first cut, which they then have to refine), and secondly, as an assist for human editors in figuring out which foreign-language-works to pay a human translator (with or without AI assistance) to work on (translation costs money: knowing where to spend it is important). But those are assistive roles, not human-replacing ones.
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@Gargron I'm willing to guess that machine translation of prose may serve two uses: firstly, as an assist for human translators (by preparing a very rough first cut, which they then have to refine), and secondly, as an assist for human editors in figuring out which foreign-language-works to pay a human translator (with or without AI assistance) to work on (translation costs money: knowing where to spend it is important). But those are assistive roles, not human-replacing ones.
@cstross @Gargron My (very not translator) impression is that human translators who have worked from rough machine translations, say that it’s harder than just translating the text.
Also, today I was in a work info session, where the talks were translated by some MS PoS thing, from Finnish to English. The results were horrendous, if hilarious. It might get better but I don’t really know why. Good simultaneous interpretation is kind of a human-level problem, really. Context matters!
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron Many times when I land on an auto-translated site I have to change the language to english because I don't even understand what's supposed to mean.
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Machine translations are often brought up as a gotcha whenever I criticize LLMs. It's worth pointing out two things: Machine translations existed decades before LLMs, and yes, machine translations are useful. However: I would never in my life read a machine translated book. Understanding what a social media post is talking about in rough terms? Sure. Literature? Absolutely not. Hell, have you ever seen machine translated subtitles? It's absolute garbage.
@Gargron Yeah, people who don't know anything about language or translation seem to think of translation as a perfect example of a "mechanical" process that should be automate-able.
*Maybe* for some kinds of technical writing (which still has its difficulties), but good translation of literature is probably one of the hardest things to replace humans for, right alongside writing good literature in the first place.
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Machine translations are often brought up as a gotcha whenever I criticize LLMs. It's worth pointing out two things: Machine translations existed decades before LLMs, and yes, machine translations are useful. However: I would never in my life read a machine translated book. Understanding what a social media post is talking about in rough terms? Sure. Literature? Absolutely not. Hell, have you ever seen machine translated subtitles? It's absolute garbage.
@Gargron much of my work is as a legal translator (evidence, wiretaps, court filings, etc.)
The party that relies on machine translations or worse, AI translations, is the party that will lose the case. Any translator can pick holes in an AI translation big enough to cross through with a herd of elephants. Those "translations" lack nuance.
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I have the impression that primarily anglophone people don't read as much translated literature, because so much good literature already exists in their language, so this issue may not be as familiar within that demographic. As someone who did not grow up anglophone, I can tell you there is a world of difference between a good and a bad translation even when done by humans. Machine translations are not even on the scale.
@Gargron Native speaker: I think you’re right. Though I have seen warnings recently about “new translation” editions on Amazon that are just LLM trash.
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@monsieuricon I hate this.
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Montreal is about to be hit by a bad ice storm -- 2-3 cm of ice on everything forecasted. I hope they got it wrong, but if not, I may lose power for a few days.
May be time to invest into an ecoflow home battery and a vehicle that can do v2h.
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I have a No Soliciting sign on my door, which salespeople often ignore, and I get grumpy about it. But, a Sonic fiber internet sales person just came to the door claiming it is now available here and gave me a card for two months free, so I'm slightly less mad about it. Though I suspect it's a lie. They've been sending me flyers for years and every time I check it is not available.
I'm gonna check again, anyway, as I hate the cable company and they're charging me twice as much for slow service.
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«Lo scontro sulla famiglia nel bosco? Rischia di distruggere il sistema di tutela dei minori» https://www.avvenire.it/attualita/lo-scontro-sulla-famiglia-nel-bosco-rischia-di-distruggere-il-sistema-di-tutela-dei-minori_105586
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Prepararsi al pi day 2026
Quest'anno mettere in piedi il Carnevale della Matematica del 14 marzo, che sarà peraltro la 195.ma edizione, non è stato per nulla semplice. Il motivo è che il giorno del pi day sarò sul treno per rientrare da Firenze, dove a partire dall'11 marzo sarà in svolgimento Didacta, fiera della didattica italiana. Ho, quindi, costretto gli altri matematti a inviarmi con congruo anticipo i loro contributi (e nel frattempo ho anche cercato di impostare delle bozze, non sia mai che riesca a raccontarvi qualcosa da Didacta a fine serata!), per cui non ho preparato nessun contenuto video da lanciare in contemporanea o in anteprima al Carnevale. E allora ecco l'idea di proporre in un post apposito un paio di news di MaddMaths! dedicate proprio al pi day e che sarebbero state decisamente vecchie uscendo all'interno del Carnevale:
Tutte le info per segnalare gli eventi dedicati alla Giornata intenazionale della matematica: per questa edizione il tema è Matematica e speranzaInoltre c'è anche una pagina con alcune attività da organizzare per il pi day. All'interno troverete alcune schede in italiano per attività a tema matematico (e pi greco!).Anche se mancano ancora pochi giorni al #piday, c'è comunque ancora un po' di tempo per segnalare eventi o lasciarsi ispirare dalle attività proposte!
https://dropseaofulaula.blogspot.com/2026/03/prepararsi-al-pi-day-2026.html
Grazie a @ulaulaman per la segnalazione https://mastodon.social/@ulaulaman/116205324715448343
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@oblomov @mcc @grumpygamer
After reading up on this a bit I can semi-confidently say that this branching process with d6s will continue infinitely. The highest chance of it terminating is of course in the first or second roll, but after that chances of terminating become infinitesimally small.
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@oblomov @mcc @grumpygamer hi! It seems like you've stumbled upon the lovely mathematical genre of problem called 'branching processes' and 'extinction probabilities'. I don't know how to calculate this, but I can show you where to look.
Tbis Reddit post had a similar idea to you: https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/s/jH1LzTXROe
This is the wiki page on branching processes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branching_process?wprov=sfla1
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@stefano also, for convenience, the overview page:
