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Social Forum federato con il resto del mondo. Non contano le istanze, contano le persone

@pfefferle Gibt es in #ActivityPub die Möglichkeit, Quotes zu erlauben?

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Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
  • @benjohn it's not a peer to peer protocol. It's federated - meaning you can pick a provider - like email or the Fediverse.

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  • @daniel I was just checking out the Wikipedia page, thanks for the pointer. … does it work well peer to peer? Identifies seem to be tied to a domain?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP

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  • @daniel@gultsch.social absolutely, the same naive expectations happen often when people think forums are easy to build :smile:

    @pixelschubsi@troet.cafe is definitely on to something about re-using an existing XMPP server in order to avoid the heavy lift. The less the maintenance burden for me, the better as far as I'm concerned.

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  • @julian @pixelschubsi I understand the instinct of wanting to reuse the parts you already have. Protocol parsing, identities, profiles etc. However those will very quickly become extremely minor building blocks in the complexity of instant messaging.
    It's very easy to underestimate the scope and feature creep of IM. I've seen this happening in other places where people initially think that IM is just passing some messages around. And then users demand more features and then you reinvent XMPP.

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  • @julian @daniel so in practice it would probably be the other way round: that heavy lifting you're rightfully afraid of has already been done and even the large tail of the remaining 20% (that in reality need 80% of the effort) are largely done.

    If we were to agree to go the XMPP route, we could have fully-featuered deployment-ready implementations of instant messaging on top of AP identities in weeks to months. If it's something entirely new on top of AP, it's going to take years.

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  • @julian @daniel I'm looking at it from a different perspective. IMO the Mastodon server (as an example) doesn't need to implement XMPP itself (it could, but it doesn't need to). Just like it doesn't implement HTTP itself.

    It could instead rely on existing implementations. Take an existing XMPP server, reverse proxy its websocket endpoint, use the existing Mastodon auth to sign in, and embed an existing XMPP web client in the web frontend.

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  • @silverpill @pixelschubsi @tris you can have a single account (or as I phrased it 'identity and login credentials') across different protocols.
    For example your Google account works across multiple protocols. And even in the federated world we have several cases where email address == xmpp address.
    So to repeat myself: using the same identity is good. Doesn't mean you are locked into ActivityPub if you want to build instant messaging.

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  • To preface — I'm in agreement that ActivityPub probably isn't the best protocol to use for instant messaging. There's a lot of FUD still being spread about XMPP and I am outside of most of those discussions. NodeBB only supports AP at current.

    That said, there's interest in pursuing AP as a delivery protocol for instant messaging because integrating a separate protocol is a heavy lift for everybody involved. It's a heavy lift if you already support AP, and it's a heavy lift when you support no federating protocols at all. Imagine a site looking to federate... now they have to use AP+XMPP? AP+Delta? etc...

    Setting aside all the existing reasons why AP isn't ideal, I will say this... It clears the baseline expectations:

    Messages can get sent via AP :heavy_check_mark: Messages can be privately addressed via existing AP addressing mechanisms :heavy_check_mark:

    That's it. The rest is icing. Really important icing, but for 99% of conversations, icing.

    @daniel@gultsch.social @pixelschubsi@troet.cafe

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Post suggeriti
  • 0 Votes
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    Today's deep dive into #activitypub#selfhosting a #pixelfed instance, I send a Follow request to a selfhosted #wordpress blog with AP plugin. The returned Accept Follow payload gets processed by InboxWorker where it just fizzles.I then send a Follow request to this account hosted on mastodon.social. That payload gets processed by InboxValidator instead, then on to ActivityHandler and down the FollowPipeline as expected.Only message difference is #mastodon adds a 'username' field.Bug?
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    trwnh@mastodon.social Yes, you're right. There are nuances and situations where you would explicitly not want to inherit the root object's context. I am dealing with the typical day-to-day use case of replying to an object with the expectation that is be part of the same existing context. However I am more than happy to make this clear in the FEP and spell out alternative situations where context inheritance would not apply. The situation I found myself in was one where anybody can (and does) include whatever context they want. In that case, it's difficult to determine whether disparate contexts are actually referring to a common set of the same objects, or whether they were disparate on purpose (i.e. a fork.) To that end, it meant that as a receiver there was no guarantee that any contexts I'd be sent would map to any contexts I know. Strict root-level inheritance for the common use-case would at least disambiguate a lot of this.
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    At this year's Solid Symposium, we gave a presentation on the lessons we've learned from building and maintaining several ActivityPods applications since 2022. The result is 14 key learnings that we're glad to share with the Solid community. More informations at https://activitypods.org/key-learnings-from-building-social-apps
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    @senesens We had a demo about this at a recent #FediForum Bring your own timeline algorithm by @mala https://spectra.video/w/xtZeTuwpYAqPszVBK1uULd