I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@401matthall @liaizon yeah, I'm not interested in echo chambers if that's what you mean. What's the point of a social network if you're just talking with people who have the same opinion as you?

[401matthall@mastodon.xyz]

@nicobao @liaizon

We don't _all_ have the same opinion about everything. We do disagree.

I think it's surprising that you're surprised there's a group of people who disagree with you and say so and you _seem_ take issue with it.

... Are you saying the reason you get on the internet is to disagree with people? Or to challenge your own assumptions?

Because so far... You don't appear to be receptive to any disagreement with your perspective.

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@401matthall @liaizon I'm very happy to agree to disagree on the opinions.

Though about what I said on the definition of what Free Software actually means, it's not an opinion but a fact.

But I respect that you think software should only be public good and receive exclusively donations of good will, if I understand well?

We can agree to disagree respectfully!

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@401matthall @liaizon I really don't take any issue with you disagreeing with me Matt. I can see the value of a social network where communities form and govern themselves in echo chambers. I don't see the value of it in Twitter form. As a slack/matrix/discord chat room, that makes more sense to me.

The only issue I took earlier was about the misrepresentation of my thoughts (which was partially my fault). Many people thought I was talking about Palestine.

[401matthall@mastodon.xyz]

@nicobao

I don't think that's the _only_ space in which software should exist. I think it's the appropriate space for open-source software.

I make a living selling my services as a developer. I'm not opposed to that.

Everything has _nuance_. No rule is applicable in _every_ situation. I just think that in the matter of social networks we're seeing a significant backlash towards corporate social media. I'm not surprised to see that frustration _shared_ here on a non-corporate platform.

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@401matthall I completely share the ideal of a public-good community owned social network. I just don't think it's the *only* way forward. And it's far from easy to sustain. You still need to fundraise money for the foundation to maintain the software etc. I think there is potentially a better way. I may be wrong.

[401matthall@mastodon.xyz]

@nicobao

<shrug> Look, that's what I thought you were saying initially.

Clarity is hard in written form.

Anyway, I hope you have success with your project. I like that people are thinking about the problem of communication. If you're willing to share your work with the world and that the context you want to work in. I think that's a good thing.

[401matthall@mastodon.xyz]

@nicobao

I hear that. I really do.

I think we could spend a lot of time defining what _better_ means.

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@401matthall I really appreciate the kind words. Yes that tweet of mine was poorly phrased, and mildly offensive for people in the ActivityPub space. I reckon it was wrongly put.

[liaizon@social.wake.st]

@nicobao @401matthall I think you would do yourself a big favor if you read up on anti-capitalism. Being anti-capitalist does not mean one doesn't deserve to be payed for their labor. It doesn't mean one doesn't fundraise or use money as an exchange of goods or services.

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@liaizon @401matthall any recommendations for reading materials?
I think it's pretty objective to say there is a problem between funding public goods versus venture capital where most of the money is. It's well studied and I've read a bit about it already. I'm all for alternative forms of financing. That's why I'm interested in the crypto space as well. I'm happy to learn about new ways to co-finance public goods sustainably.

[nicobao@fosstodon.org]

@adriano @squeakypancakes @liaizon the only problem I had was misinterpreting my point and saying I'm pro genocide or stuff like that. It's ok to disagree with me on anarchist/anti capitalist and protocol stuff since that's what I called for.

[anton@99finches.com]

@liaizon @nicobao nonsense neo-liberal unpolitics

Believing that the systems we have established to channel disagreement into Not Murder™ will somehow always inherently cease to function if consensus is impossible. While also allowing democratic mechanisms that ensure Not Murder™ to be undermined by never allowing the replacement unpopular policy arrangements, through consistently calling for moderation whenever anyone suggests that the status quo needs fundamental change of any kind whatsoever

[okaylub@mstdn.plus]

@Bike @liaizon Personally, I think a major factor in how ATProto/Bsky works "better" than ActivityPub is that your DID can be used across sites using the same protocol. You can login to "Popfeed" (like Goodreads, Backloggr, etc.) with your Bsky account and immediately see the content of people you're following.

With ActivityPub you can get Mastodon to operate with say Lemmy in a very janky way. Otherwise you're logging into multiple accounts. Better than the current web but worse than Bsky imo

[ex_06@puntarella.party]

@liaizon

my 2 cents:
- on atproto development is easier just because sucking from the usual VC money: everyone is on a basically unlimited pds for now, you code whatever you want and then people can use it and they save the stuff on bluesky pds; basically it's almost like making bots on telegram more than really using decentralization
- if people had to start choosing a PDS, they would have to start guessing which one they can pay, which one is local to their town, which one will limit them and which one will just have a subscription
- bluesky is just methadone for twitter americans
- anyone can make apps because they don't care about standards so you get no interoperability between them

As per now i'd say that bluesky is a flash in the pan. I envy the architecture that allows them to have portable identity and feeds, but 1/2

[okaylub@mstdn.plus]

@Bike @liaizon I'm sure many do NOT want their accounts to be connected like this so they'll probably create a separate one anyway.

In terms of actual federation, AP is still miles better but I think Bsky handles it in a more user-friendly way. You can go from the primary instance+PDS and freely move your content without losing posts, making a new account, etc. basically, I think AP issues lie in the UX. Your average user will not understand the protocol or its shortcomings.

[okaylub@mstdn.plus]

@ikuturso @liaizon @Bike Definitely more mainstream than Mastodon but it's nowhere near the amount of users Threads has. The user base between each 3 feels very different too.

[ex_06@puntarella.party]

@liaizon it's cringe to have to have to double toot for half of a single sentence but here we are lol

but it's nothing that we cannot replicate on the fedi.

I'll add something just to make this second toot worth lol:

What i actually think fedi is missing out is proselitism to political actors. I'm fine not having the social media aspects on this social network but it's not fine not having the possibility to have local news actually worth to know, because that's, theoritecally, the strenght of the federated model 2/2

[ikuturso@mastodon.social]

@okaylub @liaizon @Bike right, I would say the difference is not necessarily that significant when the Threads userbase is like 50x and the X userbase also remains at that level.

Mastodon also got its mainstream moment a bit earlier and that faded. It is possible it is just a temporary thing for BSky also, the overall direction has certainly been back out from any mainstream relevance so far for it too.

[tomjennings@tldr.nettime.org]

@nicobao

From my read they just seem to be disagreeing with you, not interfering with your ability to speak. I see no oppression here.

And demanding openness in money and other support is hardly extreme.

@squeakypancakes @liaizon