So for a long time I found LISP elegant but I found the syntax infuriating.
Uncategorized
24
Posts
9
Posters
4
Views
-
@mcc cond is a particularly challenging form I never managed to come up with a clean formatting for.
(You can see examples including fizzbuzz of my whitespace sensitive Lisp at https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Wart)
@akkartik This was my approach to cond, I called it the "match" statement
I think it's quite readable, but when writing it it's a bit frictiony to have to remember when to use [], when to use {}, and when to use () to get the results you wanted. (Note "match" is a *function* defined further up in the file; this LISP has no special forms, even the {}:. syntax isn't special forms, it's just inserting (, ) and ' in various ways.)
-
@akkartik This was my approach to cond, I called it the "match" statement
I think it's quite readable, but when writing it it's a bit frictiony to have to remember when to use [], when to use {}, and when to use () to get the results you wanted. (Note "match" is a *function* defined further up in the file; this LISP has no special forms, even the {}:. syntax isn't special forms, it's just inserting (, ) and ' in various ways.)
@akkartik Are there any examples of cond in the examples list above?
-
@akkartik Are there any examples of cond in the examples list above?
@akkartik By the way, something that may not be obvious in my sample code. I said {} is "lambda", but I was simplifying for space. {} is an argument-less lambda. In fact, {a b, c d} is shorthand for '((a b)(c d)). You upgrade a quoted list (a {}) to a function by passing it to the fn or set-fn builtin functions.
-
-
@akkartik Are there any examples of cond in the examples list above?
@mcc I basically got rid of cond because the `((` pattern seemed to require new delimiters. So instead `if` is multi branch as you can see in fizzbuzz.
My approach was to keep it memorable by minimizing delimiters. There are only parens, just like in regular Lisp. You can just avoid inserting parens sometimes, that's it. (And then infix arithmetic and $ for implicit gensyms 😄 I should create a version with just the paren insertion rules.)
I used the same approach as you for single word lines. No parens around them, but no error either.
-
@mcc I basically got rid of cond because the `((` pattern seemed to require new delimiters. So instead `if` is multi branch as you can see in fizzbuzz.
My approach was to keep it memorable by minimizing delimiters. There are only parens, just like in regular Lisp. You can just avoid inserting parens sometimes, that's it. (And then infix arithmetic and $ for implicit gensyms 😄 I should create a version with just the paren insertion rules.)
I used the same approach as you for single word lines. No parens around them, but no error either.
@akkartik Oh, multibranch if makes sense.
I'm actually doing a vaguely bizarre thing where the if statement can have an optional "else" because "else" is a global symbol which is defined as "false". If the symbol is non-false (eg, a block) it's treated as a case. i'm considering defining "elif" as "true" and special-casing that to determine whether the next item is a case or a condition.
-
@akkartik Oh, multibranch if makes sense.
I'm actually doing a vaguely bizarre thing where the if statement can have an optional "else" because "else" is a global symbol which is defined as "false". If the symbol is non-false (eg, a block) it's treated as a case. i'm considering defining "elif" as "true" and special-casing that to determine whether the next item is a case or a condition.
-
@SpindleyQ @mcc I've been annoyed by the lack of keywords in Lisp conditionals for.. (https://github.com/akkartik/wart/commit/c2e6d0c6d3) almost 14 years. Indentation should either mean "code that also runs" or "code that sometimes runs". When it can be either in a single stanza the result is shit.
-
So for a long time I found LISP elegant but I found the syntax infuriating. Then I made my own LISP variant with semi-significant whitespace and helper syntax— each line (up to whitespace or comma) is wrapped in an implicit (), a : wraps a () to the end of the line, a {} wraps its interior in (lambda), a [] wraps its contents in (list ), "x.y" becomes "get x y". Suddenly, I found it usable!
I wonder if I could just make an editor that applies these rules implicitly, and then I could use GUIX.
@mcc wait, are you aware of Wisp <https://www.draketo.de/software/wisp>, the indentation+shortcuts Scheme syntax?
It’s one of the supported syntaxes in Guile, so you can theoretically use it to write Guix packages.
-
@mcc wait, are you aware of Wisp <https://www.draketo.de/software/wisp>, the indentation+shortcuts Scheme syntax?
It’s one of the supported syntaxes in Guile, so you can theoretically use it to write Guix packages.
@aartaka I think it's very interesting!
I didn't know it was an option for Guix. That's good to know.
-
@aartaka I think it's very interesting!
I didn't know it was an option for Guix. That's good to know.
@mcc it’s an option for *Guile*. I’m not sure if it extrapolates to practical Guix programming, despite Guix being implemented in Guile. I don’t want to lead you astray here, because I’m uncertain myself 😅
-
( Look how fundamentally un-LISP-y my LISP is. I'm proud of it. https://codeberg.org/mcc/nameless-experimental-lisp/src/branch/unstable/sample/fizzbuzz.l0 )
EDIT: Wait, I think this sample code might be a bit out of date… this is from before the language had a "while" builtin, so it defines a "while" operation in terms of "if".
Wait. Can you write GUIX flakes (or whatever they're called) in Wisp?
-
Wait. Can you write GUIX flakes (or whatever they're called) in Wisp?
@mcc guix takes the radical approach of just using guile for everything instead of inventing another turing tarpit, so, probably?
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
-
Coinbase must be concerned I'm at risk of running out of material
-
@CassandraVert That's a nice company you've got there, sure would be a shame if something happened to it.
-
@billyjoebowers Same technique that he has with no longer releasing unemployment figures. But at least Gallup, the rat fucking cowards, is not the only polling organization.
-
Were they threatened?
-
@mitchellh cool. So, can I have admin access to all your repos? I can't commit to any amount of time, but I still want to be a maintainer. I'm evanp on GitHub.
-
@billyjoebowers Sounds more like a gift to Trump who will no longer be reminded regularly of how badly he is performing. Perhaps it is a spin on having to respond to a threat of sorts by the Administration. One day, all will be revealed.
-
@evan okay so you are asking about when one should deem a project "unmaintained".
Depends entirely on the project.
Also while you are centering project volunteers, the judgment is one that necessarily must be made by downstream users, not by the alleged maintainers.
(Though it's fine and helpful to say "hey this project is now unmaintained, just FYI".)
-
@tess if you don't think the question has an answer, feel free to skip it.
