I feel like most writers I know end up cutting words from the draft when they edit.
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@Rhube Same on both "clean first draft" and "writing and rewriting for decades". For the latter I tend to start over from scratch every single time because my vision for the story has changed. Exhausting. I should stop.
It's actually nice to hear from someone else who writes pretty clean first drafts. I know that common writing advice is to let your first draft be absolute hot garbage, and I've tried going in with that mindset, but I find that I just don't enjoy writing that way. I LIKE sitting there for a bit fiddling with a paragraph until it doesn't suck.
@astronomerritt I rarely rewrite entirely from the beginning, tho I have on occassion.
A lot of writing advice is just what works for one person that they're convinced will work for everyone else.
Editing garbage is much more painful to me than getting something down in the first place, so I prefer to not write garbage 😅 but also I have been a proofreader & editor for 15~ years and in and out of half a dozen writing groups. My first drafts weren't always clean; I've just had a lot of practice.
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@Artemis201 Interesting! Is your partner a fiction writer or non-fiction? I'm wondering if it's different.
@astronomerritt fiction.
And when I say "tends to", I mean if he's not paying attention to word count, his word count often balloons. So he tries to be rigorous about keeping under the limit he sets himself (120k), which often means purposefully removing words during edits (unless it's an edit where he realizes that the story needs a while extra scene to make things make sense) -
My professional writing is for academic purposes, but yes, my first drafts tend to be terse, and readers complain that they need more context/explanation/expansion.
(My superpower is that when everyone else is done writing a grant proposal and it's 30% over the length limit, I come in and condense it until it fits.)
@stevegis_ssg Ooh, now this is interesting to me, because I tended to overwrite in my professional, academic writing! You have a true superpower there, honestly, anyone who can condense a proposal down like that is a genius and a saint.
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@astronomerritt I rarely rewrite entirely from the beginning, tho I have on occassion.
A lot of writing advice is just what works for one person that they're convinced will work for everyone else.
Editing garbage is much more painful to me than getting something down in the first place, so I prefer to not write garbage 😅 but also I have been a proofreader & editor for 15~ years and in and out of half a dozen writing groups. My first drafts weren't always clean; I've just had a lot of practice.
@Rhube Yes, exactly!! I was trying to think through why my first drafts are so clean and I think you've nailed it. I do not want to edit garbage. Also, I've been writing since I learned how and seriously studying writing and narratives since I was a teenager, so I suppose that's rubbed off on me too. But absolutely the thought of editing my own garbage gives me hives.
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@astronomerritt fiction.
And when I say "tends to", I mean if he's not paying attention to word count, his word count often balloons. So he tries to be rigorous about keeping under the limit he sets himself (120k), which often means purposefully removing words during edits (unless it's an edit where he realizes that the story needs a while extra scene to make things make sense)@Artemis201 Ah, that's very interesting! I don't pay attention to word count at all, really, but I can definitely see how that would be a useful thing to do.
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I feel like most writers I know end up cutting words from the draft when they edit. Do any writers reading this find that they tend to add words instead?
My first drafts are often pretty sparse. When I'm editing, I work out where I need to slow down a bit, set a scene, let the story breathe, give the reader a little bit more information.
As a person, I am... loquacious, let's say, but apparently this doesn't translate to my writing.
I do. A rough chapter may start at 700 words and take several fluffings to get to 2,000 words.
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I do. A rough chapter may start at 700 words and take several fluffings to get to 2,000 words.
@UncoveredMyths Fluffings! :D
You're even more sparse than I am! I'd say a normal chapter word-length increase for me would be anything from a sixth to a third. That's really interesting. What do you tend to leave out in the first draft that you add in the second?
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@UncoveredMyths Fluffings! :D
You're even more sparse than I am! I'd say a normal chapter word-length increase for me would be anything from a sixth to a third. That's really interesting. What do you tend to leave out in the first draft that you add in the second?
It varies. Apparently a lot though. I always make a senses pass as well.
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It varies. Apparently a lot though. I always make a senses pass as well.
@UncoveredMyths Can I ask what you mean by a senses pass? I think I know, and do something similar, but I'd like to know your definition.
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@UncoveredMyths Can I ask what you mean by a senses pass? I think I know, and do something similar, but I'd like to know your definition.
The five main senses, as well as the intuition. Sometimes I think about how the other characters perceive the situation to help me recognize sights, sounds, smells, and textures.
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The five main senses, as well as the intuition. Sometimes I think about how the other characters perceive the situation to help me recognize sights, sounds, smells, and textures.
@UncoveredMyths Gotcha! Thanks for explaining. Yeah, I do the same thing, because I tend to skim over a lot of that stuff in the first draft.
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I feel like most writers I know end up cutting words from the draft when they edit. Do any writers reading this find that they tend to add words instead?
My first drafts are often pretty sparse. When I'm editing, I work out where I need to slow down a bit, set a scene, let the story breathe, give the reader a little bit more information.
As a person, I am... loquacious, let's say, but apparently this doesn't translate to my writing.
bear in mind I absolutely don't think an underwritten first draft is any better than an overwritten one, I was just doing a quick editing pass on the words I wrote yesterday and laughing at myself for how empty it is, in places.
one conversation in particular might as well have been taking place between two brains in jars communicating telepathically because I apparently did not include a single "stage direction".
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I feel like most writers I know end up cutting words from the draft when they edit. Do any writers reading this find that they tend to add words instead?
My first drafts are often pretty sparse. When I'm editing, I work out where I need to slow down a bit, set a scene, let the story breathe, give the reader a little bit more information.
As a person, I am... loquacious, let's say, but apparently this doesn't translate to my writing.
@astronomerritt I'm definitely an underwriter but I just embrace the talking heads lol.
I'd say net I probably add words in the edit, but mostly structural or things I didn't explain. Line editing I cut even more lmao.
I think the fact that I handwrite has a lot to do with it too. Very laborious to be loquacious but it doesn't always stop me.
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I feel like most writers I know end up cutting words from the draft when they edit. Do any writers reading this find that they tend to add words instead?
My first drafts are often pretty sparse. When I'm editing, I work out where I need to slow down a bit, set a scene, let the story breathe, give the reader a little bit more information.
As a person, I am... loquacious, let's say, but apparently this doesn't translate to my writing.
@astronomerritt I'm all over the map here. Some stuff drags and has to go; some stuff is empty talking heads that either needs to be cut or expanded. I also often write in short chunks, out-of-order, so sometimes I leave in unfinished sentences without even noticing...
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@astronomerritt I'm all over the map here. Some stuff drags and has to go; some stuff is empty talking heads that either needs to be cut or expanded. I also often write in short chunks, out-of-order, so sometimes I leave in unfinished sentences without even noticing...
@rr4idic I genuinely respect anyone with this sort of method. I have to write in an Orderly Fashion and I'm always fascinated by people who can write out-of-order.
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@rr4idic I genuinely respect anyone with this sort of method. I have to write in an Orderly Fashion and I'm always fascinated by people who can write out-of-order.
@astronomerritt I don't write that out-of-order -- on the large scale, I generally write going start to finish. It's just that within the span of a few paragraphs, I'm going back and forth and splicing bits together.
I often do this if there's a particular cool line I want to hit, writing that first, and then the preceding few paragraphs to get there.
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@astronomerritt I don't write that out-of-order -- on the large scale, I generally write going start to finish. It's just that within the span of a few paragraphs, I'm going back and forth and splicing bits together.
I often do this if there's a particular cool line I want to hit, writing that first, and then the preceding few paragraphs to get there.
@rr4idic Oooooh, I see! That makes sense. I don't think I could do this. I use the promise of getting to write the cool line to motivate me to write the bits leading up to it. Thanks for explaining!
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I feel like most writers I know end up cutting words from the draft when they edit. Do any writers reading this find that they tend to add words instead?
My first drafts are often pretty sparse. When I'm editing, I work out where I need to slow down a bit, set a scene, let the story breathe, give the reader a little bit more information.
As a person, I am... loquacious, let's say, but apparently this doesn't translate to my writing.
@astronomerritt My early drafts are very concise. That needs to change for the story to make sense for anyone but me. The text grows sort of fractally along it whole length, gaining detail and dialogue and showing instead of telling.
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@astronomerritt My early drafts are very concise. That needs to change for the story to make sense for anyone but me. The text grows sort of fractally along it whole length, gaining detail and dialogue and showing instead of telling.
@ElyseMGrasso Oh, that’s interesting! I’d say mine still make sense, they’re just very barebones. I like the concept of the text growing fractally.
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@astronomerritt I'm definitely an underwriter but I just embrace the talking heads lol.
I'd say net I probably add words in the edit, but mostly structural or things I didn't explain. Line editing I cut even more lmao.
I think the fact that I handwrite has a lot to do with it too. Very laborious to be loquacious but it doesn't always stop me.
@nebulos Respect for handwriting your drafts. I get terrible hand cramps so this isn’t an option for me. I used to take preemptive painkillers before written exams.
I absolutely think there’s times talking heads can work. Sometimes that dialogue can absolutely stand by itself.
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