Is describing the current political situation in the USA as fascism accurate and useful?
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Is describing the current political situation in the USA as fascism accurate and useful?
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@evan Fascism is not a switch you turn on. It's a slow frog boil, a creeping weed.
Some people are equating the level of facism in the US by the amount of control its currently exerting on its people, which is a bit like saying someone doesn't have cancer because a growing tumour hasn't become invasive and metastasized yet.
ICE and the National Guard are being used as the brown shirts were, television censors are empowered, unprecedented levels of corporatism...
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@evan As Orwell told us, people use the term "fascism" with a range of meanings, so whether it is accurate or not has no clear answer [0].
I think it *is* clear that to describe the Trump Administration as fascist is not useful. Americans who pay attention to politics either believe it's obviously true or obviously false, so using the term changes no minds. Arguing about the term can indeed be a misuse of energy — it's more productive to criticise specific policies.
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undefined Evan Prodromou ha condiviso questa discussione su
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@evan I just clicked the "I do not want to be accepted by US immigration any time soon" button, didn't I?
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@evan I just clicked the "I do not want to be accepted by US immigration any time soon" button, didn't I?
@torgeros I hope not! I have to cross the border again soon.
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@evan To be more accurate, you should use "ur-fascism"", that is a generalization coined by Umberto Eco to describe fascist-style movements around the world. This is because fascism has a precise historical mean: it is the movement founded by Benito Mussolini in Italy in 1915.
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Thanks, all. I think not accurate, but useful.
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Thanks, all. I think not accurate, but useful.
@evan how is it inaccurate?
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@evan how is it inaccurate?
@GroupNebula563 I think it'd be more accurate to define it as a weakened democracy with a fascist ruling party. Many checks on power still exist and are holding, such as an active opposition party, critical media, engaged citizens, and independent courts. That said, I think it's fine and useful to call it "fascism".
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@GroupNebula563 I think it'd be more accurate to define it as a weakened democracy with a fascist ruling party. Many checks on power still exist and are holding, such as an active opposition party, critical media, engaged citizens, and independent courts. That said, I think it's fine and useful to call it "fascism".
@evan fair enougj
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Thanks, all. I think not accurate, but useful.
@evan How is it useful?
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@evan fair enougj
@GroupNebula563 I think a lot of those checks are activated *because* it's being called fascism. If we wait until all the lights are snuffed out, there's no point calling it anything.
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@evan How is it useful?
@mpjgregoire I think it's useful to identify structures of fascism in the current USA government: emphasis on the military, authoritarian leader, integrated industrial policy, government dominance of media, anti-human-rights agenda. These are tendencies that fly directly in the face of the USA's liberal traditions, so if we want to keep those traditions, we should be aware of how their opposites can interweave and self-reinforce.
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@mpjgregoire I think it's useful to identify structures of fascism in the current USA government: emphasis on the military, authoritarian leader, integrated industrial policy, government dominance of media, anti-human-rights agenda. These are tendencies that fly directly in the face of the USA's liberal traditions, so if we want to keep those traditions, we should be aware of how their opposites can interweave and self-reinforce.
@evan @mpjgregoire I was about to click on “not accurate but useful” and then I asked myself “how is that different from any other form of lying for political advantage?”
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@evan @mpjgregoire I was about to click on “not accurate but useful” and then I asked myself “how is that different from any other form of lying for political advantage?”
@timbray @mpjgregoire That's an interesting question. Maybe it's more like calling a shirt green when it's actually chartreuse. You're giving a first approximation that's easier to understand. I think we would often say that this is *imprecise* rather than *inaccurate*.
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@evan To be more accurate, you should use "ur-fascism"", that is a generalization coined by Umberto Eco to describe fascist-style movements around the world. This is because fascism has a precise historical mean: it is the movement founded by Benito Mussolini in Italy in 1915.
@andreabont That's a good word!
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Thanks, all. I think not accurate, but useful.
@evan Hmmm... I didn't see the poll in time to vote, but it's pretty clear to me that what's going on is at least attempted fascism, if not incipient fascism. Have a look at Umberto Eco's list of core characteristics and tell me you can’t find an example of each one in the actions of the current US administration.
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You can still join us, starting in a few hours! https://fediforum.org
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Aspettiamo la smentita… https://blog.quintarelli.it/2025/10/aspettiamo-la-smentita/
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Aggiungo una considerazione generale. Dire le cose come stanno anche quando non ci conviene, senza arrampicarsi sugli specchi, alla lunga rafforza le proprie posizioni anche se sul momento può sembrare il contrario.
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Piccolo stralcio perché c'era troppo casino (e sono scarso a fare i video di mio)
Concerto stupendo, gruppo perfetto, Mikael un meraviglioso cazzaro nei suoi intermezzi parlati ❤️
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Secondo me non si può negare che il 7 ottobre ci fu un atto terroristico, non possiamo negare la realtà. Posso pure sostenere la resistenza palestinese (l'ho sempre fatto e continuerò a farlo) ma mi rifiuto di dire che uccidere dei civili sia un atto di resistenza, più che altro è un crimine di guerra. Inutile "contestualizzare". Hamas ha fatto un errore strategico gigantesco le cui conseguenze le pagano i palestinesi. Lo dico anche per rispettare la memoria di quelle ragazze che erano al rave.
