Proof of AI-assisted political profiling by Unruffled @ lemmy.dbzer0.com
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
You likely would have to use some moderation tools on a public forum. How else do you even attempt to stem bot accounts?
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
And?
Looking for commonalities by parsing logs is something llm's are really good at.
What, are you just trying to start another fuck_ai brigade event?
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And?
Looking for commonalities by parsing logs is something llm's are really good at.
What, are you just trying to start another fuck_ai brigade event?
Ok if this is not a big deal why did it fall to me to blow the whistle on it? Why were they so quiet about it?
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Ok if this is not a big deal why did it fall to me to blow the whistle on it? Why were they so quiet about it?
This is a whole lot of absolutely nothing. Thats why.
BREAKING NEWS! Mod team develops and uses mod tool!
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Ok if this is not a big deal why did it fall to me to blow the whistle on it? Why were they so quiet about it?
lmao nothing "fell to you" and no one is "quiet" about anything. you just took it upon yourself to take an already public modlog (one that unruffled knows is public) and follow the link that he posted (pubicly, to a page that anyone who has the link can view) and then pretend you found some big secret. this isn't whistleblowing, it's closer to fear mongering or some delusion where you think the world needs saving and you're the valiant hero.
luminous and unruffled both admitted everything openly and most of the shit in your original post was entirely untrue.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
Alright, but isn't that a whole lot more than most people getting banned or deleted would typically get? Slop or not, and AI opinions aside?
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
And? It's in the public modlog, Rimu. Please, can you stop harassing me? How many hater posts are you gonna make this week exactly?
this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
It's a python script that calls the lemmy/piefed api to grab comment histories. Calling it an "App" is quite a stretch. Luminous just likes pretty things, bless his cotton socks.
You are right about one thing, we will no doubt keep using the script to pull comment histories on the few occasions when we want a deep dive into someone's profile.
For the record, we were never planning to use it as an automod or hook it to an LLM. You hallucinated that, ironically. That's why we never announced it. It was nobody else's business.
How it was actually intended to be used was as a tool to supplement the existing lemmy mod tooling, so that mods can make better, more informed decisions, in a more efficient way. How is it ever a bad thing to have all the relevant information to hand? And it's being open sourced soon, so everyone can use it. Unlike some instances [nudge, nudge], we try to take a considered approach to user bans. And no, it's no linked to an LLM in any way. If you chose to use one, you'd have to paste in the user history manually. But it also very useful just for skimming through, much faster than with Lemmy UI.
Also for the record, we do not use any form of automod with automated banning and never have. All ban decisions are made by a human mod or admin. Neither do we auto-scan user profiles for bad political takes, like Zionism. What we do do, is act on user reports, conduct an investigation and then make a mod decision. Nothing has changed in that respect, except now we have an extra tool to make sure we get the decision correct.
Finally, just because I included an LLM summary of the comment history in the public modlog, it does not logically follow that the ban occurred because of the LLM summary. It simply happened to correspond very well to my own manual review, which I have already explained to you. And I thought the summary did a much more comprehensive justification of the ban than I could have fitted in the modlog, so why not include it?
In conclusion, much ado about absolutely nothing. Again.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
I think it's notable that the big receipt reveal is an example of the LLM mod tool absolutely nailing the assessment.
Honestly - this type of reporting for ban rationals should be the gold standard of moderation, AI or no. If an AI tool can help raise the standard for transparent moderation, I am 100% in support of it.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
I've not followed along all the various threads and, in all honesty, I've only read this very post because it popped up as being reported while I was trying to drink my morning coffee. Also, don't ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.
Imho, and I say this as someone only minding the meaning of words, if those people really see themselves as anarchists I would suggest they urgently:
- Look up the definition of anarchism in a (decent) dictionary and see how well it fares using tools like AI (being a centralized tool that is owned by some powerful/uncontrolled group, the IA itself being a true black box... while they, the 'anarchist' users of said AI themselves trust it, and so on). Or maybe, since they're already using it, they could ask their AI if they're really meant to go hand in hand? ;)
- Spend some time finding a better suited name to describe their jolly band. Imho, "believers" seems much more suited than "anarchists" to describe any group of people willing to listen to words coming out of some black box outside of their control but that is just an impression, there may be better words out there.
I don't mind people using AI: it's a new tool and it is to be expected that some real stupid shit will be done using it. But, like any tool, AI is not neutral. By and in its very design AI has a purpose and if I was to define myself as an anarchist, which I would not if there was still any doubt about that, I would seriously and very urgently question my desire to use AI despite its intrinsic design, despite its very purpose.
Now, if you don't mind, I will pour myself a fresh and hot new cup of coffee. And maybe later today I will pick up my copy of Proudhon 'Qu'est-ce que la propriété?' ('What is Property', which was first written in French) which, imvho, any wannabe anarchist should read before deciding it's ok, or not ok, for them to use AI, and what type of AI. And yes, that is a book worth reading for discussing AI despite having been written in the first half of the 19th century. The answers they might get out of that book may very well... unsettle them and their apparently very unchallenged certainties.
A very stimulating and healthy read, even for non-anarchists like myself.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx
Is the evidence in question that Unruffled acted on when deciding to ban the user for breaking their instance rule against Zionism.
Your previous post made it sound like this was an automatic AI going around banning users for wrongthink, when the reality is its a search tool for mods and admins to quickly look through a users potentially years long comment history.
It is chock full of examples of such behaviour, along with hyperlinks to the offending comments. What exactly is the issue here, that an AI tool searched through a log and pointed out examples of rule breaking behaviour and got a person who downplays genocide banned?
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I've not followed along all the various threads and, in all honesty, I've only read this very post because it popped up as being reported while I was trying to drink my morning coffee. Also, don't ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.
Imho, and I say this as someone only minding the meaning of words, if those people really see themselves as anarchists I would suggest they urgently:
- Look up the definition of anarchism in a (decent) dictionary and see how well it fares using tools like AI (being a centralized tool that is owned by some powerful/uncontrolled group, the IA itself being a true black box... while they, the 'anarchist' users of said AI themselves trust it, and so on). Or maybe, since they're already using it, they could ask their AI if they're really meant to go hand in hand? ;)
- Spend some time finding a better suited name to describe their jolly band. Imho, "believers" seems much more suited than "anarchists" to describe any group of people willing to listen to words coming out of some black box outside of their control but that is just an impression, there may be better words out there.
I don't mind people using AI: it's a new tool and it is to be expected that some real stupid shit will be done using it. But, like any tool, AI is not neutral. By and in its very design AI has a purpose and if I was to define myself as an anarchist, which I would not if there was still any doubt about that, I would seriously and very urgently question my desire to use AI despite its intrinsic design, despite its very purpose.
Now, if you don't mind, I will pour myself a fresh and hot new cup of coffee. And maybe later today I will pick up my copy of Proudhon 'Qu'est-ce que la propriété?' ('What is Property', which was first written in French) which, imvho, any wannabe anarchist should read before deciding it's ok, or not ok, for them to use AI, and what type of AI. And yes, that is a book worth reading for discussing AI despite having been written in the first half of the 19th century. The answers they might get out of that book may very well... unsettle them and their apparently very unchallenged certainties.
A very stimulating and healthy read, even for non-anarchists like myself.
Dbzer0 operates a user hosted mesh of local AI, there is no big powerful group. It's a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.
https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx
You can see the output of the AI here, it's simply provided a summary of a users comments and offers URL links to view the original comments. There is no issue of AI neutrality because a human is entirely behind this process, and they make the final judgement on whether to act on the report.
I understand it's fashionable to hate on AI, and I totally get being anti-corporate and against datacentres but when you're running something on your PC that is completely unconnected from them that argument falls apart.
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Dbzer0 operates a user hosted mesh of local AI, there is no big powerful group. It's a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.
https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx
You can see the output of the AI here, it's simply provided a summary of a users comments and offers URL links to view the original comments. There is no issue of AI neutrality because a human is entirely behind this process, and they make the final judgement on whether to act on the report.
I understand it's fashionable to hate on AI, and I totally get being anti-corporate and against datacentres but when you're running something on your PC that is completely unconnected from them that argument falls apart.
It’s a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.
By using a corporate owned AI?
I understand it’s fashionable to hate on AI,
Allow me to quote my own message:
I don’t mind people using AI
Where do you see any hate in that statement, or in the rest of my comment for that matter? Also, not minding something (AI, or not AI-related) should not forbid me, or anyone else, to look at its in a critical manner, right? Or did I miss the episode explaining us they, for some reason, should/could not be criticized?
Whatever, thx for considering old-me as fashionable. That had not happened in many decades.
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It’s a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.
By using a corporate owned AI?
I understand it’s fashionable to hate on AI,
Allow me to quote my own message:
I don’t mind people using AI
Where do you see any hate in that statement, or in the rest of my comment for that matter? Also, not minding something (AI, or not AI-related) should not forbid me, or anyone else, to look at its in a critical manner, right? Or did I miss the episode explaining us they, for some reason, should/could not be criticized?
Whatever, thx for considering old-me as fashionable. That had not happened in many decades.
By using a corporate owned AI?
Qwen is FOSS under Apache License 2.0.
I don’t mind people using AI
My apologies, I must have misread or skimmed over a part here.
There is nothing un-anarchist about using such a piece of technology, especially when it's being deployed to catch genocide deniers.
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I've not followed along all the various threads and, in all honesty, I've only read this very post because it popped up as being reported while I was trying to drink my morning coffee. Also, don't ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.
Imho, and I say this as someone only minding the meaning of words, if those people really see themselves as anarchists I would suggest they urgently:
- Look up the definition of anarchism in a (decent) dictionary and see how well it fares using tools like AI (being a centralized tool that is owned by some powerful/uncontrolled group, the IA itself being a true black box... while they, the 'anarchist' users of said AI themselves trust it, and so on). Or maybe, since they're already using it, they could ask their AI if they're really meant to go hand in hand? ;)
- Spend some time finding a better suited name to describe their jolly band. Imho, "believers" seems much more suited than "anarchists" to describe any group of people willing to listen to words coming out of some black box outside of their control but that is just an impression, there may be better words out there.
I don't mind people using AI: it's a new tool and it is to be expected that some real stupid shit will be done using it. But, like any tool, AI is not neutral. By and in its very design AI has a purpose and if I was to define myself as an anarchist, which I would not if there was still any doubt about that, I would seriously and very urgently question my desire to use AI despite its intrinsic design, despite its very purpose.
Now, if you don't mind, I will pour myself a fresh and hot new cup of coffee. And maybe later today I will pick up my copy of Proudhon 'Qu'est-ce que la propriété?' ('What is Property', which was first written in French) which, imvho, any wannabe anarchist should read before deciding it's ok, or not ok, for them to use AI, and what type of AI. And yes, that is a book worth reading for discussing AI despite having been written in the first half of the 19th century. The answers they might get out of that book may very well... unsettle them and their apparently very unchallenged certainties.
A very stimulating and healthy read, even for non-anarchists like myself.
Also, don’t ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.
Ah you don't remember but it was for editing the piefed wiki and the fedihack event. The rest, i completely forgot.
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Also, don’t ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.
Ah you don't remember but it was for editing the piefed wiki and the fedihack event. The rest, i completely forgot.
Oh, now I understand. Well I would say that's OK then. Just be aware I won't do night watch ;)
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By using a corporate owned AI?
Qwen is FOSS under Apache License 2.0.
I don’t mind people using AI
My apologies, I must have misread or skimmed over a part here.
There is nothing un-anarchist about using such a piece of technology, especially when it's being deployed to catch genocide deniers.
My apologies, I must have misread or skimmed over a part here.
Alas, it has become the norm, to skip 'a part here'.
There is nothing un-anarchist about using such a piece of technology, especially when it’s being deployed to catch genocide deniers.
Don't waste your time throwing slogans at me, I'm like made out of some kind of ideological teflon and no slogan will stick with me (even the ones I may agree with).
Instead, of telling me what I should think (to be right) about AI and anarchy, have you even considered opening the Proudhon book I mentioned? It's in the public domain, easy to find. And maybe try to understand why an obviously out of touch old fellow like myself may have hinted at the possibility that, maybe, using AI-powered tools could not sit that well with an anarchist ideology and the way it supposed to stand against some very fundamental notions? Or is it simply that I must be wrong given the fact that I dare not agree with you or with someone you agree with? If that is so, that's fine by me all I have left to do is to wish you a nice day.
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My apologies, I must have misread or skimmed over a part here.
Alas, it has become the norm, to skip 'a part here'.
There is nothing un-anarchist about using such a piece of technology, especially when it’s being deployed to catch genocide deniers.
Don't waste your time throwing slogans at me, I'm like made out of some kind of ideological teflon and no slogan will stick with me (even the ones I may agree with).
Instead, of telling me what I should think (to be right) about AI and anarchy, have you even considered opening the Proudhon book I mentioned? It's in the public domain, easy to find. And maybe try to understand why an obviously out of touch old fellow like myself may have hinted at the possibility that, maybe, using AI-powered tools could not sit that well with an anarchist ideology and the way it supposed to stand against some very fundamental notions? Or is it simply that I must be wrong given the fact that I dare not agree with you or with someone you agree with? If that is so, that's fine by me all I have left to do is to wish you a nice day.
Instead of telling myself and others that we couldn't possibly be anarchists because our view on the subject are different to yours and suggesting someone read a 270 page book to understand your POV, why don't you summarise your reasoning?
Is it that AI is able to free up our menial labour?
Is it that is infringes on corporate copyright and steals from them?
Is it that it's being used in a manner that harms the finances of AI companies who charge for this service?
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Oh, now I understand. Well I would say that's OK then. Just be aware I won't do night watch ;)
Same, i will probably lock it during my sleep time than unlock when i'm awake. I did the same with a luanti server.
For now the thread is going well. Thank to them all. :)
And don't do mod task if you only wanted to do the wiki or something else. ;)
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
As long as the moderation follows their rules, and it is always as transparent as shown in this example, I don’t see an issue with this.
My only concern is that LLMs are very good at recognising biases in questions and are more likely to confirm them than push back. So the LLM might pay too much attention to small/possible infringements. But this depends heavily on the model, the prompt, and the reader.
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