Proof of AI-assisted political profiling by Unruffled @ lemmy.dbzer0.com
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Sadly this is a learning moment that inside-jokes don't belong in modlogs. Any nuance it would have would be immediately lost and twisted beyond any recognition.
Yeah, this went right over my head so I was confused when I saw mention that you are actually using a FOSS model. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that as a tool to supplement mod work
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So what model are you using? Models are biased by their training data and guardrails put in by the trainers, so for transparency sake it is important to mention the model used.
Based on another comment in the thread it’s Qwen which is a FOSS model made by Alibaba
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Civilian de‑protection rhetoric
Notable examples:- Claims that “minors are not innocent by default”
- Statements that “they’re killing children” is mere outrage propaganda
- Questions implying all Palestinian deaths may involve combatants
Yeah I'd like to see direct quotes but even if this is heavily paraphrased there's no question.
Date: 2026-03-15T10:53:32.311868Z
Comment ID: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/24299783
Post ID: 519441
Community ID: 45Just because they are minors, doesn’t make them innocent by default.
The whole article is devoid of details on how these drones are used.
Control-F is your friend
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Dbzer0 is full tilt groupthink and exclusionism. They consistently follow their leader and error-prone tech to aggro any form of defection— it’s hard to parse it from a cult. Rimu stays based for calling out them assuming guilty before proven innocent. I only wish the Piefed full instance block feature still worked on the Voyager app.
Rimu stays based for calling out them assuming guilty before proven innocent
Can you clarify please?
The tool summarizes, includes references to specific comments, and a person has to review and action.
What "assumed guilt" are you referring to here?
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I've not followed along all the various threads and, in all honesty, I've only read this very post because it popped up as being reported while I was trying to drink my morning coffee. Also, don't ask me how I ended becoming a mod either, I have no clue.
Imho, and I say this as someone only minding the meaning of words, if those people really see themselves as anarchists I would suggest they urgently:
- Look up the definition of anarchism in a (decent) dictionary and see how well it fares using tools like AI (being a centralized tool that is owned by some powerful/uncontrolled group, the IA itself being a true black box... while they, the 'anarchist' users of said AI themselves trust it, and so on). Or maybe, since they're already using it, they could ask their AI if they're really meant to go hand in hand? ;)
- Spend some time finding a better suited name to describe their jolly band. Imho, "believers" seems much more suited than "anarchists" to describe any group of people willing to listen to words coming out of some black box outside of their control but that is just an impression, there may be better words out there.
I don't mind people using AI: it's a new tool and it is to be expected that some real stupid shit will be done using it. But, like any tool, AI is not neutral. By and in its very design AI has a purpose and if I was to define myself as an anarchist, which I would not if there was still any doubt about that, I would seriously and very urgently question my desire to use AI despite its intrinsic design, despite its very purpose.
Now, if you don't mind, I will pour myself a fresh and hot new cup of coffee. And maybe later today I will pick up my copy of Proudhon 'Qu'est-ce que la propriété?' ('What is Property', which was first written in French) which, imvho, any wannabe anarchist should read before deciding it's ok, or not ok, for them to use AI, and what type of AI. And yes, that is a book worth reading for discussing AI despite having been written in the first half of the 19th century. The answers they might get out of that book may very well... unsettle them and their apparently very unchallenged certainties.
A very stimulating and healthy read, even for non-anarchists like myself.
Super cool stuff. I like how you suggest a book written by a man whose Wikipedia page, under "Controversial positions" describes him as anti-feminist, antisemitic, and proto-fascist. No one having a good faith discussion throws out a reading assignment while making not one single argument or quote from the book. And to then insult people for not reading it (or rather, not having already read it) is really telling. You dont care what people think, so long as they shut up and leave.
I've skimmed the book before and I wasnt shocked to be in disagreement with many of his points. He wasn't a committed anarchist his whole life, and even notions like "property is theft" are circularly incoherent. You can't steal something that isn't already recognized as owned by someone else. At the very minimum, a being has complete autonomy of their own body, so again, hardly surprising that a committed misogynist thought bodies were communal property.
Why do we care what a famously obtuse old proto-fascist has to say about contemporary anarchism again? Oh right, because this whole tirade is to deflect from the main topic with ragebait and probably some crypto-fascist propaganda move.
I can reccomend books you won't read too. In "The Commune Form," Kristin Ross makes many interesting observations about the formation of communes and their foundational role in all forms of left-wing revolution. From the intro:
My goal in these brief reflections is not to provide a definition of a form that in its contingency, lack of abstraction, and ongoing, unfinished nature could hardly lend itself to such a task. The commune form, as form, does not lend itself to a static definition, unalterable through time; it does not unfold in the same way everywhere around the world. It is not a concept.
Throughout the book (which is also available online) she makes similar cases and discussions: that the commune form (and anarchism itself) are specific instantiations of common practices. Just like a pirate ship is a floating laboratory for democracy, just like every Fediverse instance is an experiment in governance.
I'll be frank, you really piss me off. I find that smug, patronizing "I sip my coffee while moderating the children" tone of voice to be such an immediate indicator of a person who let's the petty tyranny of forum moderation go straight to their head. See also, demanding an entire other instance of people read some book in order to satisfy your demands for ideological purity. You sound like the worst kind of condescending reddit mod, a tiny authoritarian loftily demanding the peasants get on your intellectual level. "Read my dense ideological treatise," says the "teflon man" who doesn't let ideology stick to them.
Go fuck yourself.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
Wtf is this coordinated assault on dbzer0? Even your own links are just pointing to Flatworm very reasonably responding with their exact moderation process. I know it hurts to be wrong baby, but when someone writes you a short essay addressing all the points and then some, that's not "minimizing" your complaints, is disassembling and disproving them.
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Super cool stuff. I like how you suggest a book written by a man whose Wikipedia page, under "Controversial positions" describes him as anti-feminist, antisemitic, and proto-fascist. No one having a good faith discussion throws out a reading assignment while making not one single argument or quote from the book. And to then insult people for not reading it (or rather, not having already read it) is really telling. You dont care what people think, so long as they shut up and leave.
I've skimmed the book before and I wasnt shocked to be in disagreement with many of his points. He wasn't a committed anarchist his whole life, and even notions like "property is theft" are circularly incoherent. You can't steal something that isn't already recognized as owned by someone else. At the very minimum, a being has complete autonomy of their own body, so again, hardly surprising that a committed misogynist thought bodies were communal property.
Why do we care what a famously obtuse old proto-fascist has to say about contemporary anarchism again? Oh right, because this whole tirade is to deflect from the main topic with ragebait and probably some crypto-fascist propaganda move.
I can reccomend books you won't read too. In "The Commune Form," Kristin Ross makes many interesting observations about the formation of communes and their foundational role in all forms of left-wing revolution. From the intro:
My goal in these brief reflections is not to provide a definition of a form that in its contingency, lack of abstraction, and ongoing, unfinished nature could hardly lend itself to such a task. The commune form, as form, does not lend itself to a static definition, unalterable through time; it does not unfold in the same way everywhere around the world. It is not a concept.
Throughout the book (which is also available online) she makes similar cases and discussions: that the commune form (and anarchism itself) are specific instantiations of common practices. Just like a pirate ship is a floating laboratory for democracy, just like every Fediverse instance is an experiment in governance.
I'll be frank, you really piss me off. I find that smug, patronizing "I sip my coffee while moderating the children" tone of voice to be such an immediate indicator of a person who let's the petty tyranny of forum moderation go straight to their head. See also, demanding an entire other instance of people read some book in order to satisfy your demands for ideological purity. You sound like the worst kind of condescending reddit mod, a tiny authoritarian loftily demanding the peasants get on your intellectual level. "Read my dense ideological treatise," says the "teflon man" who doesn't let ideology stick to them.
Go fuck yourself.
Go fuck yourself.
Did that help you feel any better or any righter? Not that it matters much. Have a nice day.
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Date: 2026-03-15T10:53:32.311868Z
Comment ID: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/24299783
Post ID: 519441
Community ID: 45Just because they are minors, doesn’t make them innocent by default.
The whole article is devoid of details on how these drones are used.
Control-F is your friend
I didn't realise how long that page is, motherload of receipts
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And? It's in the public modlog, Rimu. Please, can you stop harassing me? How many hater posts are you gonna make this week exactly?
this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
It's a python script that calls the lemmy/piefed api to grab comment histories. Calling it an "App" is quite a stretch. Luminous just likes pretty things, bless his cotton socks.
You are right about one thing, we will no doubt keep using the script to pull comment histories on the few occasions when we want a deep dive into someone's profile.
For the record, we were never planning to use it as an automod or hook it to an LLM. You hallucinated that, ironically. That's why we never announced it. It was nobody else's business.
How it was actually intended to be used was as a tool to supplement the existing lemmy mod tooling, so that mods can make better, more informed decisions, in a more efficient way. How is it ever a bad thing to have all the relevant information to hand? And it's being open sourced soon, so everyone can use it. Unlike some instances [nudge, nudge], we try to take a considered approach to user bans. And no, it's no linked to an LLM in any way. If you chose to use one, you'd have to paste in the user history manually. But it also very useful just for skimming through, much faster than with Lemmy UI.
Also for the record, we do not use any form of automod with automated banning and never have. All ban decisions are made by a human mod or admin. Neither do we auto-scan user profiles for bad political takes, like Zionism. What we do do, is act on user reports, conduct an investigation and then make a mod decision. Nothing has changed in that respect, except now we have an extra tool to make sure we get the decision correct.
Finally, just because I included an LLM summary of the comment history in the public modlog, it does not logically follow that the ban occurred because of the LLM summary. It simply happened to correspond very well to my own manual review, which I have already explained to you. And I thought the summary did a much more comprehensive justification of the ban than I could have fitted in the modlog, so why not include it?
In conclusion, much ado about absolutely nothing. Again.
Can you define harassment in a way that includes this post?
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There is no delegation to the tool.
It provides an evaluation in text format, and references. Thats it.
Edit: To be clear, rimu is just making that part up. It has no ability to auto-ban and its not an automod.
Its a python script to check a user's comment history and evaluate using a local model, and spits out what it finds. A person has to read it and make a decision on this information.
Everything else is rimu's hallucination.
If there was a full review of source text that was summarised by an LLM then it wasn’t needed. It’s a pointless tool.
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Wtf is this coordinated assault on dbzer0? Even your own links are just pointing to Flatworm very reasonably responding with their exact moderation process. I know it hurts to be wrong baby, but when someone writes you a short essay addressing all the points and then some, that's not "minimizing" your complaints, is disassembling and disproving them.
It's weird because this thread sits right above the one from a week ago where its detailed how people were trying to fake neo-nazi content against the db0 instance.
Like, context is important here. The piefed dev knows exactly whats going on and who these individuals are, especially the user in question that got banned.
It's an ugly look for sure.
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Considering the recent actions, maybe reconsider that.
I saw the post on dbzer0 related to libb's lock action. I guess, your real question is my position in this mess ? So be it.
I don't want to take side. It was posted by the Admin of Piefed.social and raised an issue on how we handle the moderation part. This post is also there because someone asked why Rimu doesn't post in !fediverse@piefed.social.
- I haven't be able to diggest this enormous raw of informations. I prefer taking my time and read them slowly outside the current debate.
- Both Rimu and Dbzer0 can counter-arguments, expose their facts and users can decide. I'm watching. I will lock the post later so i can take a break.
- As for myself, I would have handled differently.
- I have a mixed opinion on AI. I use it for subtitle or transcript. There are pro and cons. Dbzer0 stated they don't use it, or run a local one on you computers. I believe them.
- I understand why people would feel their privacy was invaded, i'm one of these. The reason we left Reddit was for spez locking up API and later corpoAI. But our post are public and we check user's history before taking decision.
- I also understand why mods would use this tool. It is covenient, fast but that's not how i would handle or imagine the moderation part.
Maybe my opinion would change overtime if i was managing a bigger instance.
As for the discussion between Unruffled and Libb, It's better to let them alone.
If Libb want to disengage from the current discussion, so let it be. I don't think it is worth to insist and ask him to discuss when he doesn't want to.
Maybe they both missed an interesting discussion and misunderstood each other ? Maybe later they could share their ideas, books and define part of anarchy in the 21 century ? Maybe they will completly disagree ? Dunno.
Maybe, they could also imagine a disengage tool where anyone, not only mods, can lock their own threads and tell users "i don't want to continue this discussion."
Right now, It is not the right time. It's not the right place for a talk between libb and unruffled.
So i'm waiting for a better moment and that we cool down.
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from the mod log:
The output from the LLM was provided as proof that someone needed to be banned.
I didn't want to do this but my hand was forced by their dissembling, minimization and bullshit. Note how the output includes a nice big logo with a slogan and ascii graphics - this was not a one-off experiment, this is an app they were proud to call their own.
FYI, i will lock this post in 3hours at 19h30pm. So we can take a break from it (and myself too).
Thank you.
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Dbzer0 operates a user hosted mesh of local AI, there is no big powerful group. It's a collective of PC tech enthusiasts offering a free alternative to the big corporations.
https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx
You can see the output of the AI here, it's simply provided a summary of a users comments and offers URL links to view the original comments. There is no issue of AI neutrality because a human is entirely behind this process, and they make the final judgement on whether to act on the report.
I understand it's fashionable to hate on AI, and I totally get being anti-corporate and against datacentres but when you're running something on your PC that is completely unconnected from them that argument falls apart.
A user hosted mesh of black boxes that are opaque as to how they made their decisions (yes even the ones that “say” what their thought process is).
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I saw the post on dbzer0 related to libb's lock action. I guess, your real question is my position in this mess ? So be it.
I don't want to take side. It was posted by the Admin of Piefed.social and raised an issue on how we handle the moderation part. This post is also there because someone asked why Rimu doesn't post in !fediverse@piefed.social.
- I haven't be able to diggest this enormous raw of informations. I prefer taking my time and read them slowly outside the current debate.
- Both Rimu and Dbzer0 can counter-arguments, expose their facts and users can decide. I'm watching. I will lock the post later so i can take a break.
- As for myself, I would have handled differently.
- I have a mixed opinion on AI. I use it for subtitle or transcript. There are pro and cons. Dbzer0 stated they don't use it, or run a local one on you computers. I believe them.
- I understand why people would feel their privacy was invaded, i'm one of these. The reason we left Reddit was for spez locking up API and later corpoAI. But our post are public and we check user's history before taking decision.
- I also understand why mods would use this tool. It is covenient, fast but that's not how i would handle or imagine the moderation part.
Maybe my opinion would change overtime if i was managing a bigger instance.
As for the discussion between Unruffled and Libb, It's better to let them alone.
If Libb want to disengage from the current discussion, so let it be. I don't think it is worth to insist and ask him to discuss when he doesn't want to.
Maybe they both missed an interesting discussion and misunderstood each other ? Maybe later they could share their ideas, books and define part of anarchy in the 21 century ? Maybe they will completly disagree ? Dunno.
Maybe, they could also imagine a disengage tool where anyone, not only mods, can lock their own threads and tell users "i don't want to continue this discussion."
Right now, It is not the right time. It's not the right place for a talk between libb and unruffled.
So i'm waiting for a better moment and that we cool down.
Not a question, more a comment/feedback.
I consider libb's reply less disengaging and more enrage and block, which I consider inappropriate for a mod to do.
Regarding the larger bit with rimu and this post in general (not what my comment was about, but I'll elaborate since you took the time to do so as well), the issue - for me - comes down to veracity.
I think its perfectly appropriate to call out bad actions. I have no problems whatsoever expressing my disappointment with the FAF when it has come up, which has been rare, and expressed those thoughts without any issue whatsoever. One example being a discussion about defederation, where some of the examples shown should/would have been removed anyway due to the rule breaking contents.
Anyway, for me, claims like this should be met with a pinned post that they haven't been verified, and each user should review and consider accordingly.
For example - is there a tool using an llm reviewing comments at request of a user? Yes, easily proven.
Is it an automod? No. That claim is unverifiable with what has been shared, and not even remotely indicated by what was shared, making the bulk of this post conjecture.
As for the points (I'm going to skip ones I filly understand and agree with to not make this too long, because I have a feeling you are already occupied with keeping an eye out for rule breaking behavior):
have a mixed opinion on AI. I use it for subtitle or transcript. There are pro and cons. Dbzer0 stated they don't use it, or run a local one on you computers. I believe them.
Same. They definitely run locally, as do I, the api horde has been a publicly available tool for a long time. I'm very much against corp. ai, but perfectly fine with local use.
But our post are public and we check user's history before taking decision.
And most importantly, none of that is different here. Everything else in this post is just wild speculations and blatant fear mongering. Which is the issue I have with this post, and why I think a pinned comment is appropriate.
As for the discussion between Unruffled and Libb, It's better to let them alone.
Again, I was more referring to their interaction with db0.
Flat out inappropriate, no excuses that are valid there IMO.
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If there was a full review of source text that was summarised by an LLM then it wasn’t needed. It’s a pointless tool.
If there was a full review of source text that was summarised by an LLM then it wasn’t needed
You go through every single users comment?
Do you realize how long that would take?
I disagree, its a huge time saver.
This guesswork was done by a black box ran by OpenAI.
Local qwen, summarized with receipts.
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Accidentally unlocked the comment, but I don't see why it should be locked in the first place.
Re-lock if it's supposed to be locked, I guess.
Libb locked immediately after insulting db0, I would say it was inappropriate to have locked in the first place.
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Based on another comment in the thread it’s Qwen which is a FOSS model made by Alibaba
The source is not open so it is not FOSS. It is freeware.
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https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx
Is the evidence in question that Unruffled acted on when deciding to ban the user for breaking their instance rule against Zionism.
Your previous post made it sound like this was an automatic AI going around banning users for wrongthink, when the reality is its a search tool for mods and admins to quickly look through a users potentially years long comment history.
It is chock full of examples of such behaviour, along with hyperlinks to the offending comments. What exactly is the issue here, that an AI tool searched through a log and pointed out examples of rule breaking behaviour and got a person who downplays genocide banned?
It is chock full of examples of such behaviour, along with hyperlinks to the offending comments.
The ban log makes it unclear whether the comments are all offending, or even supposed to be. Was the user banned for this?
Date: 2026-04-17T13:51:01.747786Z Comment ID: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/24890311 Post ID: 591643 Community ID: 351 When the Molly hits just right. -
Full comments with direct links are there, thats the summary up top, just scroll down.
Edit: https://faf-pb.xyz/?ab3c4aae88b64dbc#J8jz6mNac8kRHm5aMXBJQjbUr9pbwMfWrdEaNm1jywhx if you want to see for yourself.
Don't be dishonest. You know there are no direct quotes there.
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