What do we want

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

What do we want?
WebSerial and WebBluetooth in #Firefox

What don't we want?
Any AI shit in Firefox.

[becomethewaifu@tech.lgbt]

@dtl Hell, even a form of WebUSB where the device (or OS driver/config) needs to be explicit about enabling WebUSB access (which moots 99% of mozilla's "security concerns") would be great...

I've been tempted to do a "native extension" thing that implements webUSB-as-RPC with a 'shim' extension and small daemon, but that requires both spoons and time, of which I have neither... Someone already made one for the FileSystem API IIRC.

[robodoll@bot.girldat.ing]

@becomethewaifu @dtl i dont get why they cant just handle webusb the same way they handle access to the microphone/camera/notifications

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@becomethewaifu a shim, or something needing to be explicitly enabled would be great.
I'm fed up with running chrome in a VM just to flash a device, or talk to some sensors.

[becomethewaifu@tech.lgbt]

@robodoll @dtl The "security" claim is that because some devices can be reprogrammed to be other USB devices, granting 'raw' USB access to something opens up BadUSB-style attacks over the network, as USB is a "trusted" bus for input devices.

Meanwhile the only real practical uses I've seen for WebUSB are those same exact DFU purposes, like the GrapheneOS installer, switch RCM launchers, and even "toy IDEs" for microcontrollers. I'm really not sure how to reconcile "the security implications of it possibly doing sneaky DFU" with "the whole damn point is using it to DFU things without needing to install programs or drivers"...

[kianryan@oldbytes.space]

@dtl Yep. Here's the list of /useful/ stuff that would honestly make life a heck of a lot easier.

Here's what Mozilla are hell-bent on delivering.

The list is not an overlap. *sigh*

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@kianryan yep!

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@robodoll @becomethewaifu my moan was prompted by needing to flash a device from home assistant. My only options were plug it into the inaccessible HA box, or fire up the VM, let chrome auto update, remember to grant USB access to the client OS, allow the client to log in to HA (something changed, HA forgot the permissions). Flash the device.
There was some other USB fuckery going on as I had to unplug and replug the device a few times for it to work. I blame the VM USB pass through for that.

[becomethewaifu@tech.lgbt]

@dtl I just keep a copy of debian-chromium around and launch it with --temp-profile (which IIRC is a debian wrapper feature, it creates a new profile directory in /tmp before launching) for that stuff. But I'm also annoyed by it, hence the temptation to do the native-shim thing.

The idea is to utilize the native-RPC mechanism there to allow extensions to talk to native apps, but have an "app" whose sole purpose is to expose the WebUSB API over that RPC channel. The extension handles all the permission prompts, and the 'app' handles all the device restrictions (no "sensitive" device classes, mainly). The native side could also in theory be implemented in a way that allows its use as a portal by flatpak and friends for accessing specific USB device types via manifest permission, too (as an explicit dbus portal and/or a "libUSB compatible" drop-in shim, like pipewire-pulse)

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@becomethewaifu let me know if you need a tester.

[ben@bluetoot.hardill.me.uk]

@dtl A lot of gamer hardware (coloured lights on water cooling blocks and the temperature thresholds for when the pumps kick in ) can now configured by WebUSB to prevent having to write custom apps.

Forcing people to user Chrome to configure hardware is a pain

(Or so I'm told from a bunch of podcasts I listen to about folks doing gaming stuff on Linux...)

[becomethewaifu@tech.lgbt]

@dtl As I mentioned before, I unfortunately don't have either the spoons or the time to actually get around to writing that any time soon. I just have the "rough sketch" of how it would probably work. But will do if I ever manage to start it and get to a working state.

My current project list is about a mile long:

• Finish lego Notre Dame
• Finish that little laser-wood bookshelf diorama
• Build the Yukikaze PlaMo I just acquired
• Do Something with my model railway layout
• Put the "borrowed" RAM back into my SGI box and buy some new stuff for the IPX lunchbox
• Finish reverse engineering my radio scanner's memory format (I have basic channels down, but that's it) and implementing it in CHIRP
• More stuff I've forgotten about until I see the pile of parts lying around

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@ben I was just trying to add a new Bluetooth to WiFi gateway to the system, nothing too fancy. Plug in ESP32 board and hit flash, then I hit all the issues elsewhere in this thread.

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@becomethewaifu same, too many projects not enough me.

[wetter@23.social]

@dtl UDP!

[eloy@hsnl.social]

@becomethewaifu @dtl and for WebSerial

https://github.com/kuba2k2/firefox-webserial

[flod@fosstodon.org]

@dtl WebSerial is being actively worked on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926940

I don't think that's the case with WebBluetooth.

With that said, I can't wait for people complaining about the browser breaking some hw.

[growlph@greywolf.social]

@dtl Web browsers interacting with peripherals still seems like alien technology to me...I never really moved past thinking of them as document viewers.

[dtl@8bitorbust.info]

@growlph I generally agree. Except sometimes it would be really useful.

[growlph@greywolf.social]

@dtl Yeah I'm not against it, making stuff more accessible is a good thing, it just creates some cognitive dissonance to learn that it exists at all.