English speakers of the fedi.
Uncategorized
139
Posts
89
Posters
21
Views
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc I’m a native English speaker and I’ve always read them as an infinitive, like “this is the button you press to save”, not as a command/instruction to the computer telling it to save.
-
Iff English is your second language, how are these verbs tusually translated to *your* language in software interfaces?
@eltonfc this is interesting, I answered (imperative, imperative) but that seems to be in the minority
that said, I think for quite a lot of cases (any ending in -a I think, which is quite common) there'd be a similar ambiguity in Swedish
-
-
@eltonfc I don't think in either imperative or infinitive etc - as a native speaker, I just think in terms of knowing the thing I want to do is if I click on the option with that name.
@penguin42 @eltonfc
Same here, although my thinking might be affected by my second languages (Japanese, French, German - none of them fluent).Anyway, for a non-European language ...
In my experience, Japanese menu items are usually in the "dictionary form" of the verb (which is kind of like an infinitive but also the same as the non-past plain form); imperative would be longer and much more complex (if you think tu/vous Du/Sie are tricky, that's nothing compared to Japanese). There are also situations where a noun is used - I can expand on this a bit if you wish (most Japanese verbs can be noun-ed and most nouns can be verb-ed, but there are multiple mechanisms); but tl;dr: the shortest form is usually used.BTW, English menus sometimes have nouns (e.g., "properties", "new window") or words that could be either noun or verb (e.g., "exit", "edit", "format", "help")
-
@firefly well, the push/pull labers are instructions to the person reading them. Computer buttons are instructions that the person reading them is giving to the computer.
I gues a better Analogue would be the label on a physical button that does something, like the ones you press on a bis requesting a stop. Or "Open door"
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc imperative, but as "if you click here, you command the puter to do this" -
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc I'm Irish, so in our language the imperitive "do (it)" is the root of our verbs, whereas across in England "to do" is the root
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc @seachaint Native speaker and, I said imperative but. Oh! Er it's a bit more subtle than that for me.
Menu entries (leaf nodes) are definitely imperative. "Save!" "Open!" "Undo!!".
Menu bar categories ("edit", "format", "view") are infinitive, *except* when navigating the menu where they can take on any form including the noun inside a (usually reverse ordered) verb phrase. "edit, undo", "Format paragraph", "file: open." are all different. -
Iff English is your second language, how are these verbs tusually translated to *your* language in software interfaces?
@eltonfc funny thing is, in Polish, even if they tried to make it infinitive - eg. "Zapisać" - it could still be interpreted as imperative, just more formal / military-style.
But no, they translate it as "Zapisz", which is the friendly / direct type of imperative.
-
Iff English is your second language, how are these verbs tusually translated to *your* language in software interfaces?
@eltonfc I can answer this second one: neither :D Hungarian translations settled mostly on nominalising the actions in menus and buttons, thus "saving", "opening" (mentés, megnyitás), instead of statements (ment, megnyit) or imperatives (ments, nyiss meg).
Some items ended up with other nouns: nézet (the view), súgó (prompter, whisperer; for Help)
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc Buttons feel more commandy than menus, but I can't quite fit them well as infinitives in my head - though when I explain someone what to do with what menu, they also don't fully feel like imperatives either.
-
Oh, that's very true. Or not even verbs. The "File" menu is a collection of commands which relate to file handling (open, close, etc.), not a command _to file_.
(Although it occurs to me that reading Edit as a verb may be how "Preferences" got stuck there in some standards, even though it doesn't have much to do with other Edit operations cut/copy/paste.)
-
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc I grew up in the days when all these functions were commands you could enter into the terminal so to me, they're imperative because they're literal command inputs.
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc Wow! The results are interesting. I’m a native speaker and I assumed all native speakers were like me and feel like it is infinitive, but apparently I am in the minority of native speakers. I am more like the majority of second-language speakers. Very interesting indeed.
-
@eltonfc I don't know if I speak English at all, because I have no idea what imperative or infinitive should mean in that context 😅
I believe German systems tend to use the infinitive. In English both are "Edit". When you use an English app, which way do you interpret it?
Infinitive: Bearbeiten (Nennform, zu bearbeiten, the idea to edit something, we can edit something, I want to edit something.)
Imperative: Bearbeite [dies] (commanding order: Edit this now. Or maybe first person: I edit this.)
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
As a Dutch person, I read it as infinitive or first person.
Computer: What do you want to do?
Me: I want to edit. I edit something.The computer is an agent extension of me. The computer doesn't do, I do. That's for GUI.
On the CLI and in software development, most functions I use and write myself are imperative (method names tend to be long enough that there's no ambiguity, and some coding convention docs prescribe it explicitly). Open this, remove that, install this.
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc In esperanto it is imperative so that colours my interpretation a bit.
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc There is an ambiguity here. To the user, the word on the button is an infinitive: press the Save button to save, etc. But to the computer, the button is an imperative: I am ordering the computer to Save if I push that. So the answer is viewpoint dependent.
-
English speakers of the fedi. In a software with the interface in English, Reading a menu with verbs such as Save, Open, Close, Edit, Format etc., do you read them as imperative (an order: "do this") or as an infinitive (the "base form" of the verb, like "to do this")?
Are you a native speaker or have English as a second language?
#Dev #ux #ui #software #interface #translation #uiux #uxui #gui
@eltonfc@bertha.social note that translations to different languages will treat it differently (e.g. russian always uses infinitive, while polish always imperative), so non-native speakers most likely would be biased according to that
For me personally - i initially didn’t think much of it so treated it as infinitive same as in russian, then i realized that some languages actually do use explicitly imperative forms, and so english is probably meant to be that too
(Didn’t vote, queering the binary ig)
Feed RSS
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
-
@vv how dare you
*pronk*
-
@rysiek @david_chisnall
It’s probably easier to explain as class warfare from the billionaire and temporarily embarrassed billionaire classes.
https://catandgirl.com/cat-and-girl-are-power-broke/
-
@DigiDavidex se non compri niente risparmi il 100%!
-
@david_chisnall It’s all a fuck around
-
@debian gargle@p14:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
13.4
-
@tarix29 that's awesome! Thanks for doing it.
-
See the news today. That’s no longer happening, even Wall Street eventually catches onto the obvious.
-
@feorag @etchedpixels @cstross @_tillwe_ I really hope it happens, I’d rather catch a train in the evening and wake up at my destination than wake up early to then catch a fast train or (shudder) go to the airport.
