sysadmins/webmasters of fedi:
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@ansuz Some of the replies/comments in that thread are just insane!
Scraping is fine, even when there's a robots.txt (and other signs) saying not to, but DDoSing is illegal and you should sue people who do that.
Just ... what ?!?
Some of these people are in a totally different reality.
No, not reality ... the other thing.
@ColinTheMathmo oh yea, a lot of them have very clearly had way too much silicon-valley-kool-aid to drink and were basically incoherent.
I was actually pleasantly surprised at a few others, though, I can't help but feel that the more sensible ones might be wasting their time commenting on HN and should just join fedi
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@ColinTheMathmo oh yea, a lot of them have very clearly had way too much silicon-valley-kool-aid to drink and were basically incoherent.
I was actually pleasantly surprised at a few others, though, I can't help but feel that the more sensible ones might be wasting their time commenting on HN and should just join fedi
Definitely a "take the rough with the smooth" thing.
I don't tend to read HN commentary on my stuff. (Sometimes, but not always)
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sysadmins/webmasters of fedi:
I am looking for suggestions of which search engine crawlers I should consider permitting in my robots.txt file.
There can definitely be value in having a site indexed by a search engine, but I would like to deliberately exclude all of those which are using the same data to train LLMs and other genAI. More specifically, I would only like to allow those which have an explicit stance against training on others data in this fashion.
Currently I reject everything other than Marginalia (https://marginalia-search.com/). Are there any others I should consider?
@ansuz If Marginalia is already there then:
https://alpha.mwmbl.org
https://stract.com -
@ColinTheMathmo oh yea, a lot of them have very clearly had way too much silicon-valley-kool-aid to drink and were basically incoherent.
I was actually pleasantly surprised at a few others, though, I can't help but feel that the more sensible ones might be wasting their time commenting on HN and should just join fedi
@ansuz @ColinTheMathmo this has been my experience also in the rare cases when my writing gets shared on HN (or lobste.rs or reddit, FWIW): there a bunch of ignorami who are full-in on the corporate propaganda, and a few sane voices that try to highlight how bad that is for everyone. 1/2
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@ansuz @ColinTheMathmo this has been my experience also in the rare cases when my writing gets shared on HN (or lobste.rs or reddit, FWIW): there a bunch of ignorami who are full-in on the corporate propaganda, and a few sane voices that try to highlight how bad that is for everyone. 1/2
On the one hand, I agree that they're mostly wasting their time and would do better to spend it elsewhere; OTOH, I am glad for the work they do, and who knows, maybe their words reach others that can then do better.
2/2
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@ColinTheMathmo oh yea, a lot of them have very clearly had way too much silicon-valley-kool-aid to drink and were basically incoherent.
I was actually pleasantly surprised at a few others, though, I can't help but feel that the more sensible ones might be wasting their time commenting on HN and should just join fedi
@ansuz responding to someone on hacker news that they're too good for HN and should join fedi would be absolutely hilarious to no one but me
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@ansuz responding to someone on hacker news that they're too good for HN and should join fedi would be absolutely hilarious to no one but me
@rune I might have tried it if I had an account there, but then imagine if I was wrong and that was their one good take. fedi equivalent of buyer's remorse
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I just published a blog post summing up my most pertinent thoughts about dealing with badly-behaved web-scraping bots:
https://cryptography.dog/blog/AI-scrapers-request-commented-scripts/
It isn't exactly a Hallowe'en-themed article, but today is the 31st and the topic is concerned with pranking people who come knocking on my website's ports, so it's somewhat appropriate.
#infosec #bots #halloween #scrapers #AI #someMoreHashtagsHere
One of the people that read my article on algorithmic sabotage set up an infinite source of nonsense for LLM scrapers to ingest:
It uses txtgen (https://ndaidong.github.io/txtgen/) to respond to every subdomain and URL with garbage.
There are already other projects to do the same, but it's nice to see more people trying their hand at addressing the problem.
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looks like someone reshared my article to Hacker News where someone has (predictably) already commented on the headline without reading the article 😅
I wrote up some commentary about the response to my last article:
"Algorithmic sabotage debrief"
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I wrote up some commentary about the response to my last article:
"Algorithmic sabotage debrief"
@ansuz I love this, thank you for writing it!
You talk about how people just block IP addresses. Yup, that's me.
I'm blocking /16s at this point, as well as a couple /8s, and many /13s and /14s.
1.5 billion requests over a 24 hour period is not okay. I'd already blocked one offender subnet, when they stepped up their attempts to the billion range. They tried for a solid week. Then they spent 3 months at a rate of 30K per 24 hours, before wandering off to bug someone else. 🙄 -
One of the people that read my article on algorithmic sabotage set up an infinite source of nonsense for LLM scrapers to ingest:
It uses txtgen (https://ndaidong.github.io/txtgen/) to respond to every subdomain and URL with garbage.
There are already other projects to do the same, but it's nice to see more people trying their hand at addressing the problem.
Somebody posted a Korean-language summary of my "AI scrapers request commented scripts" with some commentary:
https://aisparkup.com/posts/6165
An excerpt, translated via Firefox's local translation models because I can't read Korean:
> Is it self-defense against unauthorized collection of data under the guise of ignoring robots.txt, or is it excessive retaliation? The fact that an AI model that costs billions of dollars can be disabled with a few hundred documents is a pleasant reversal for some, but a worrying situation for others.
They also mention the WWE/Kropotkin tarpit described by @jonny:
> Another is said to have created a contaminant data with text created by mixing the WWE script with Kropotkin’s “inter-infrastructure theory.”
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Somebody posted a Korean-language summary of my "AI scrapers request commented scripts" with some commentary:
https://aisparkup.com/posts/6165
An excerpt, translated via Firefox's local translation models because I can't read Korean:
> Is it self-defense against unauthorized collection of data under the guise of ignoring robots.txt, or is it excessive retaliation? The fact that an AI model that costs billions of dollars can be disabled with a few hundred documents is a pleasant reversal for some, but a worrying situation for others.
They also mention the WWE/Kropotkin tarpit described by @jonny:
> Another is said to have created a contaminant data with text created by mixing the WWE script with Kropotkin’s “inter-infrastructure theory.”
I'm trying to work on the fluconf website, but I keep getting nerd-sniped by the behaviour of the scrapers that are already hitting the not-yet-officially-public site.
In my follow-up to the AI-scrapers article I mentioned that there are actors who monitor certificate transparency logs for new domains to crawl/probe, but I've never really paid close attention to the resources that get targeted first.
It's hard to know for sure because they spoof their user-agent strings and do their best to look like legitimate traffic, but it looks like OpenAI, Nomic.ai, and some other minor AI companies are using this technique.
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@ALFA sì stanze adiacenti.
Ma per fortuna devo solo sostituire le magliette a mezza manica con i maglioni.
Il resto è come dite voi: tutto nello stesso armadio.
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@LaVi e deve essere un guasto bello brutto: ancora non hanno risolto e la linea risulta chiusa
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Nel 2020, la Francia ha restituito 24 teschi all'Algeria. Da oltre un secolo erano conservati al Musée de l'Homme di Parigi, catalogati, numerati ed esposti.
I resti appartenevano ai combattenti della resistenza algerina uccisi e decapitati durante la colonizzazione francese nel XIX secolo.
Il museo esponeva i resti dei popoli colonizzati come esemplari per studiarli, misurarli e classificarli secondo una gerarchia razziale che giustificava la dominazione.
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@ju @Uilebheist che io sappia la Gran Bretagna è anche un caso a parte perché la ricchezza privata dei sovrani è significativamente maggiore di quella degli altri sovrani europei, e mi risulta sia molto più ai livelli “influenzare significativamente la politica della nazione in cui sono” degli altri.
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@francina1909
...e ovviamente gli armadi sono in stanze diverse? 🤔
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@simonett_a
Buon sabato Simo
@ALFA
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@ALFA non mi ci entrano tutti nello stesso armadio 😭😭😭
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@Uilebheist @ju però il potere temporale del papa si esercita su mezzo km quadrato e su meno di un migliaio di persone che hanno solo una cittadinanza temporanea e generalmente possono scegliere quando vogliono¹ di andarsene e non essere più soggetti.
sarà anche potere assoluto, ma è decisamente residuale pure quello
¹ con i limiti del dover cambiare / trovare un altro lavoro, ma hanno comunque un'altra cittadinanza in automatico, non è come dover migrare in un altro stato nel caso standard.
