Have you seen this news?
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@jaz @evan @benpate I would add, in regards to 'Signal has 50 employees", that Mastodon does not. And there's a lot of things that need fixing and improving already without having to solve E2EE messaging.
Something, something, resourcing.
But whatever, it is what it is. I'm sure it'll be fine. It just sounds like a lot of work for not a lot of reward. 🙃
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@jaz @evan @benpate I would add, in regards to 'Signal has 50 employees", that Mastodon does not. And there's a lot of things that need fixing and improving already without having to solve E2EE messaging.
Something, something, resourcing.
But whatever, it is what it is. I'm sure it'll be fine. It just sounds like a lot of work for not a lot of reward. 🙃
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@benpate @bluewinds @GroupNebula563 Sure! My signal is
soatok.45if you'd like to coordinate@soatok@furry.engineer @benpate@mastodon.social @bluewinds@tech.lgbt @GroupNebula563@mastodon.social if we have our finest crypto furries on board let’s hope we can avoid a multiply by zero bug
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@tapafon нічого не зрозумів
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@jaz @benpate I should also say that the interviews I've done about having more people bring their personal connections, family and friends, to the Fediverse, they repeated again and again that they needed to have private messaging to do that, and this warning keeps them from doing it. If people don't connect with real-world relationships here, they aren't going to stay. This is existential.
@evan @benpate well, that warning would be more informative - but less readable - if it said "Direct messages on Mastodon, just like Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn and all your SMS messages, are not end-to-end encrypted. Do not share any highly-sensitive information over Mastodon."
The gap here is people think the others /are/ private because they don't take the ethical stance of pointing this out.
Personally, I'd remove the warning.
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@evan @benpate well, that warning would be more informative - but less readable - if it said "Direct messages on Mastodon, just like Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn and all your SMS messages, are not end-to-end encrypted. Do not share any highly-sensitive information over Mastodon."
The gap here is people think the others /are/ private because they don't take the ethical stance of pointing this out.
Personally, I'd remove the warning.
50% of people in this survey think SMS is secure.
https://connect.lime-technologies.com/en/blog/messaging-data-privacy-survey/
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@aslakr I can only imagine @evan says "like what?" because he's thinking of the protocol / backend work and not Mastodon as a piece of software with a frontend.
There's so much sub-par public UX in Mastodon, but even more so if you look at the Admin and Moderation panels. A lot needs a rethink.
But this $$$ is not being spent on that. It's 2 backend engineers to work on backend according to the press release.
I just don't see E2EE as a priority for a Mastodon experience.
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Signal also has 50 employees and money in the bank to pay the lawyers.
@jaz @benpate @earth_walker Signal is also a centralized service controlled by a very few people with the ability to be blocked and cut off easily.
I don't see E2EE fedi as competition for Signal, it's just a way to ensure comms are at least somewhat protected. Is there something complex about the implementation that makes you feel you are operating a E2EE service beyond the fact that Masto servers already do that via TLS?
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I agree. I love groups! A lot of great work happening there.
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@aslakr I can only imagine @evan says "like what?" because he's thinking of the protocol / backend work and not Mastodon as a piece of software with a frontend.
There's so much sub-par public UX in Mastodon, but even more so if you look at the Admin and Moderation panels. A lot needs a rethink.
But this $$$ is not being spent on that. It's 2 backend engineers to work on backend according to the press release.
I just don't see E2EE as a priority for a Mastodon experience.
@matt I say "like what?" because part of what I do for a living now is find problems that are keeping the Fediverse from growing and improving, and then I find money to help fix those problems. Sometimes with technology, sometimes with convening meetings, sometimes with research.
So, knowing what experienced instance operators like you think needs to be done to make the Fediverse bigger and better is a really big deal for me!
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@matt I say "like what?" because part of what I do for a living now is find problems that are keeping the Fediverse from growing and improving, and then I find money to help fix those problems. Sometimes with technology, sometimes with convening meetings, sometimes with research.
So, knowing what experienced instance operators like you think needs to be done to make the Fediverse bigger and better is a really big deal for me!
I think it'd be good to get more of this kind of input, though. I am thinking about good ways to do it.
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@jaz @benpate @earth_walker Signal is also a centralized service controlled by a very few people with the ability to be blocked and cut off easily.
I don't see E2EE fedi as competition for Signal, it's just a way to ensure comms are at least somewhat protected. Is there something complex about the implementation that makes you feel you are operating a E2EE service beyond the fact that Masto servers already do that via TLS?
@reflex @benpate @earth_walker
I'm not trying to be snide here, I mean this very literally.
I don't know what I don't know about operating an E2EE, patio, porn, or recycling business. All I know is they are all regulated, require licensing, insurance, have wildly different requirements in different jurisdictions.
I've done the work for operating social media services.
I have no intention of doing the work for any of the other services listed.
(Export controls come to mind though.)
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@evan @benpate well, that warning would be more informative - but less readable - if it said "Direct messages on Mastodon, just like Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn and all your SMS messages, are not end-to-end encrypted. Do not share any highly-sensitive information over Mastodon."
The gap here is people think the others /are/ private because they don't take the ethical stance of pointing this out.
Personally, I'd remove the warning.
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@evan There's probably two very different buckets full of 'Things I'd like to improve as a Fediverse admin' and 'Reasons why people don't want to adopt yet another social media site in 2026' and there's little overlap between those two buckets. 😂
Do you publish your findings and research anywhere publicly? I'd be interested in reading along.
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>I think it's good to give people the privacy they need
To be super clear, so do I. I just don't want to be the person giving it to them.
>Would you be more inclined to support E2EE on a server where you control who uses it, like mastodon.iftas.org?
Me personally, no, I will trust my highly-sensitive data to a very focussed, reputable org that does this for a living.
(I honestly don't remember who hosts that server. Every once in a while I have to go look it up.)
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@evan There's probably two very different buckets full of 'Things I'd like to improve as a Fediverse admin' and 'Reasons why people don't want to adopt yet another social media site in 2026' and there's little overlap between those two buckets. 😂
Do you publish your findings and research anywhere publicly? I'd be interested in reading along.
For the personal relationships research work I did, it's on my personal blog. There's a video, too.
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Done, no AI used so criticism is welcome:
https://pen.waltuh.cyou/autumn/the-social-web-foundation-adds-end-to-end-encryption-to-mastodon-and-why-this
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