I deactivated Google Play on my phone.
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@raymaccarthy @ThePolishDispatch I'm at the Cranky With Big Tech stage where I won't even use a new app to start something and then delete it after setting up. It's time-consuming enough getting away from the ones I already have.
@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy Same! I am very app-allergic. The few I have on my phone have very good reasons to be there.
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@oldrup Der var to valg. At give efter, logge på Google Play og opdatere. Eller at logge ud af Norlys-appen og afinstalle den. Det var et nemt valg. Jeg har fjernet Norlys-appen. Jeg kan bruge websiden fra min PC når jeg er hjemme og har min kodeviser i nærheden.
@CiaraNi Det er et fornuftigt valg. Jeg gør det samme. Benytter mobilen og dens apps hvor mobiliteten vitterlig gør en forskel (podcasts, kort, beskeder) og overlader fjernvameregnskabet, budgettet og e-boks til den store skærm på hjemmekontoret. Kan man kalde det et bevidst valg?
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@jschwart @agturcz @CiaraNi @Gina I've also never faced a smartphone requirement myself, but admittedly I do go out of my way to avoid getting into situations where that might happen, and I'm also perfectly willing to not do things if they would require those devices, just like I simply walk by any store that says "PIN only".
So I guess I'm not the best example case here. Banks are indeed the most problematic, although I do have accounts at four Dutch banks that don't require Android or iOS.
@kevin I have adopted a similar policy. I walk away from digital solutions or companies that want to force an unwanted digital solution on me. Or that refuse to take cash. With an essential service like utilities, I can't not be a customer, but I can and did delete the electricity company's app. I've only ever used a web browser for banking, so have luckily avoided that problem - coercive funtions in banking apps seems to be a big problem for many people.
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@CiaraNi As I am avid user of the non-googled 25yo phone for my daily talks I twice got asked "install app or else go away". They both (bank/telco) caved in when threatened with invoking EU anti-discrimintation laws and reporting them straight to the EC (It was before the 1499/1500 directives even, I was invoking 2019 one IIRC). I wonder whether Denmark anti-discrimination laws can be used to get at the google-happy company demandin customer in EU to use US-based services.
@ohir Interesting thought. I know that services like the public transport travel card (Rejsekort) and the government wwo-factor authentication system (mitID) require non-app alternatives because they can't exclude citizens. I don't know how non-discrimination laws would work for something like a utilities company or banking app.
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@CiaraNi This is all very interesting, and as for many others still the showstopper to buy freely a de-Googled phone.
I think there will be troubles here in Italy for long times, given the subjection that this country has to the US - foraged by the typical inertia.@luc0x61 This is it exactly. It's hard to switch when we've all been locked in by so many companies and national institutions that tell us: 'You must be a customer of specifically Google or Apple in order to access our services'. Given the state of the US these days, at least people are starting to question that, though.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi@mastodon.green i once wrote to a banking app, they replied with a LLM generated answer 😑
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@CiaraNi Ikke presist en "god appoplevelse"! And after a while, updating requires buying a new phone anyway . . .
@timtfj Ha yes, that line made me snicker. 'To give me a good app experience' my arse, if you'll excuse the Irishism. Same as my Mac that I've refused to update for over a year and that keeps telling me to update 'to increase your productivity and give you a better experience!"' Yeah, right, more non-consensual AI, you mean.
And oh yes, that 'your phone is too old, you must update' move is a scandal. All that e-waste, if people update their phones just to access an app.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
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@CiaraNi I don't know what OS your phone are running, but some custom androids offer using microG, which solves at least some of the problems with not having google play.
@anderslund Godt at vide, tak for forslaget. I'm adopting the contrary method for now. If I can't access an app without Google Play, I will delete the app and use their website. I wasn't a big app fan in the first place, so I only have a smaller number of more essential ones, which lessens the hassle when I have to walk away.
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@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy Same! I am very app-allergic. The few I have on my phone have very good reasons to be there.
@ThePolishDispatch @raymaccarthy I have had only a shortlist of apps on my phone, and that's getting shortened further since I dropped Google Play.
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@CiaraNi Det er et fornuftigt valg. Jeg gør det samme. Benytter mobilen og dens apps hvor mobiliteten vitterlig gør en forskel (podcasts, kort, beskeder) og overlader fjernvameregnskabet, budgettet og e-boks til den store skærm på hjemmekontoret. Kan man kalde det et bevidst valg?
@oldrup Det har været et bevidst valg hos mig, i hvert fald.
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@CiaraNi@mastodon.green i once wrote to a banking app, they replied with a LLM generated answer 😑
@Stomata That sounds far too typical. I have had a similar experience writing to a bank while logged in to my netbank through my web browser, supposedly writing to my human customer consultant. An AI email was sent back with entirely useless links to their website, no relation whatsoever to the very specific question I'd sent. I am currently corresponding with them about this, but they very dismissively do not care.
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@ekimia I hadn't heard of MicroG until this thread. Thank you for the suggestion. It seems to be a good workaround. In this particular case, I have chosen to delete their app. On principle too - I don't want my electricity company to force me to use Google to access their services, however I get it. It's good to know the option exists though. Thanks.
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@ekimia I hadn't heard of MicroG until this thread. Thank you for the suggestion. It seems to be a good workaround. In this particular case, I have chosen to delete their app. On principle too - I don't want my electricity company to force me to use Google to access their services, however I get it. It's good to know the option exists though. Thanks.
@CiaraNi 98 % of people apps needs GooglePlayServices because the SDK is mainly based on this brick
This is why in order to have a really Libre software Android phones, MicroG had to replace it because we want the average Joe to have most apps working
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@ekimia I hadn't heard of MicroG until this thread. Thank you for the suggestion. It seems to be a good workaround. In this particular case, I have chosen to delete their app. On principle too - I don't want my electricity company to force me to use Google to access their services, however I get it. It's good to know the option exists though. Thanks.
@CiaraNi The path for liberty from #gafam is to move your phone to eOS or similar if it's supported on this list https://doc.e.foundation/devices
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@liebach Tak! I have had a far less nice exchange with a bank about their appalling use of AI in customer service. Their first response was so dismissive that that my next reply was Very Snippy. I am waiting for the flames that are still pouring out of my ears to die down before I bore the Fediverse with that story 🙂
@CiaraNi @liebach 😄 I'm reading this with interest as @donty and I would like to de-Big Tech but are only nibbling at the edges for now. I was looking at hotels yday and automatically rejected those that had a pop-up AI chatbot. The bots were identical so the hotels must be signed up to the same 'service'. I was mindful of a recent thread here about avoiding booking sites and so ploughed through the results and found this lovely little place https://www.haydensinrye.co.uk/stay-with-us
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@CiaraNi @liebach 😄 I'm reading this with interest as @donty and I would like to de-Big Tech but are only nibbling at the edges for now. I was looking at hotels yday and automatically rejected those that had a pop-up AI chatbot. The bots were identical so the hotels must be signed up to the same 'service'. I was mindful of a recent thread here about avoiding booking sites and so ploughed through the results and found this lovely little place https://www.haydensinrye.co.uk/stay-with-us
@callunavulgaris Lookls lovely - have a nice stay there, when the time comes! I bet they'll greet you with a cup of tea when you arrive.
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@ThePolishDispatch @raymaccarthy I have had only a shortlist of apps on my phone, and that's getting shortened further since I dropped Google Play.
@CiaraNi @ThePolishDispatch @raymaccarthy Actually a good idea. It also reduces the attack surface.
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@kevin I have adopted a similar policy. I walk away from digital solutions or companies that want to force an unwanted digital solution on me. Or that refuse to take cash. With an essential service like utilities, I can't not be a customer, but I can and did delete the electricity company's app. I've only ever used a web browser for banking, so have luckily avoided that problem - coercive funtions in banking apps seems to be a big problem for many people.
@CiaraNi I've always lived like this, so I never really had to change my ways. So yeah, I guess it's easy for me to say how easy it is.
And in the Netherlands the situation is relatively okay. Sure, there are some places I can't go and some things I can't do, but when I then hear stories about Sweden with their Mobile BankID for everything and many Swedes not even knowing what their physical currency looks like, that really makes me shiver..
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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> gli autori umani non divaghino troppo
io, beh... tendo a divagare in maniera abnorme, eh...
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@katttivizzima se un LLM mi mette una fonte che non esiste continuerò a rivelarlo come tale. Se mi cita una fonte che dice tutt'altro, butto via comunque il testo. (Purtroppo anche molta gente fa finta di citare una fonte ma dice tutt'altro...)
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@informapirata però si spera che gli autori umani non divaghino troppo, o almeno ritornino a bomba al tema iniziale. Credo che gli LLM stiano lavorando su questo, riprendendo il prompt iniziale che dopo un po' si è perso, ma siamo ancora molto indietro.
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@floreana 🤣🤣🤣🤣 sei nel posto giusto!
Apri la finestra e inizia a tirarla alla gente che molti non capiscono le metafore e devono toccare con mano 🙂
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@katttivizzima i software che dovrebbero rilevare l'uso di IA usano euristiche che possono o no funzionare, ne sappiamo qualcosa con Wikipedia (in italiano), che non ammette voci create con l'IA e richiede di indicare se la si è usata per migliorare la prosa lasciando un contenuto "umano". La mia prosa, per esempio, ha troppi incisi per sembrare generata da un LLM, ma visto che sono spesso analitico potrebbe comunque essere scambiata per un lavoro di un computer. @aitech
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@ok hello?
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@repubblica @notizie-dal-mondo-la-repubblica-repubblica peccato... avevo tante speranze dopo Mandela
