The more I work on #ONI, which is basically a web components frontend for an as basic as possible #ActivityPub client to server service, the more I realize I'm just not built for JavaScript programming.
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The more I work on #ONI, which is basically a web components frontend for an as basic as possible #ActivityPub client to server service, the more I realize I'm just not built for JavaScript programming.
Despite having put in the hours every day for a number of months, the whole Promise paradigm just doesn't seem to click for me.
Now I'm struggling to create a throbber component (easy) while fetches happen in the background (easy) and then have it replaced (not easy) by actual content (easy).
😱 Gaaah!!!
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The more I work on #ONI, which is basically a web components frontend for an as basic as possible #ActivityPub client to server service, the more I realize I'm just not built for JavaScript programming.
Despite having put in the hours every day for a number of months, the whole Promise paradigm just doesn't seem to click for me.
Now I'm struggling to create a throbber component (easy) while fetches happen in the background (easy) and then have it replaced (not easy) by actual content (easy).
😱 Gaaah!!!
@mariusor FWIW, I'm working on a similar thing, and I've settled into a pattern like this - the component has a spinner, a viewer, and a no-data message, then have a dataBind() method like:
```
dataBind(data, binder) {
if (data) {
this.#spinner.style.display = 'none';
this.#viewer.style.display = null;
this.#noData.style.display = 'none';
} else {
this.#spinner.style.display = 'none';
this.#viewer.style.display = 'none';
this.#noData.style.display = null;
}
}
``` -
@mariusor FWIW, I'm working on a similar thing, and I've settled into a pattern like this - the component has a spinner, a viewer, and a no-data message, then have a dataBind() method like:
```
dataBind(data, binder) {
if (data) {
this.#spinner.style.display = 'none';
this.#viewer.style.display = null;
this.#noData.style.display = 'none';
} else {
this.#spinner.style.display = 'none';
this.#viewer.style.display = 'none';
this.#noData.style.display = null;
}
}
```@OpinionatedGeek litjs has an idiomatic way of achieving this kind of logic.
It has an `until(promise, fallback)` function which waits for the promise to resolve and display fallback until then.
Even with this simple setup I still get issues. :D
It's definitely a "me" problem. I'm holding it wrong somehow, but I haven't seen any examples in the wild of "holding it right".
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@OpinionatedGeek litjs has an idiomatic way of achieving this kind of logic.
It has an `until(promise, fallback)` function which waits for the promise to resolve and display fallback until then.
Even with this simple setup I still get issues. :D
It's definitely a "me" problem. I'm holding it wrong somehow, but I haven't seen any examples in the wild of "holding it right".
@mariusor That sounds so frustrating! (I feel your pain. I've given up in the past on libraries/add-ons that did complicated jobs but had no docs to tell me how to use them. I love examples!)
I do like the sound of that `until()` approach. I went with an ever-more-complex databinding approach that causes me some problems with large ActivityPub objects...
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@mariusor That sounds so frustrating! (I feel your pain. I've given up in the past on libraries/add-ons that did complicated jobs but had no docs to tell me how to use them. I love examples!)
I do like the sound of that `until()` approach. I went with an ever-more-complex databinding approach that causes me some problems with large ActivityPub objects...
Hey @OpinionatedGeek I see you're working on ActivityPub stuff, is the code public to look at?
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@mariusor That sounds so frustrating! (I feel your pain. I've given up in the past on libraries/add-ons that did complicated jobs but had no docs to tell me how to use them. I love examples!)
I do like the sound of that `until()` approach. I went with an ever-more-complex databinding approach that causes me some problems with large ActivityPub objects...
@OpinionatedGeek I finally got a workable version, though I am not very satisfied with it.
You can see it in action on my metal releases bot/ActivityPub playground: https://releases.bruta.link/outbox
The tab at the top corresponds to the outbox collection of the actor it gets loaded in the background to show an eventual icon/name change.
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@OpinionatedGeek I finally got a workable version, though I am not very satisfied with it.
You can see it in action on my metal releases bot/ActivityPub playground: https://releases.bruta.link/outbox
The tab at the top corresponds to the outbox collection of the actor it gets loaded in the background to show an eventual icon/name change.
@mariusor Nice! I like the way the data flows through the `it` attribute.
FWIW here's how your post looks in my C2S code. Depending on circumstances, each of the main bits (the profile picture, name, each addressee, the replied-to actor, and the content) may be demand-loaded.
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@mariusor Nice! I like the way the data flows through the `it` attribute.
FWIW here's how your post looks in my C2S code. Depending on circumstances, each of the main bits (the profile picture, name, each addressee, the replied-to actor, and the content) may be demand-loaded.
@OpinionatedGeek nice, I like that you display explicitly the recipients.
So far everyone seems to want to paper over that whole mechanism with the "public" "followers" "mentions" model that Mastodon engendered.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@Jasper Burns
Events
Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have the option to announce events in new posts. Mastodon can receive and show these posts.
However, Mastodon has no way to handle the actual event part. Like, you can't confirm your participation in an event on Mastodon. Mastodon doesn't know events. Mastodon has no buttons or other UI elements for interacting with events. And Mastodon doesn't have an event calendar either which you'd add the event to when confirming your participation.
There are also events with no announcement post. For example, birthdays. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have a dedicated birthday field in their profiles, much unlike Mastodon. For example, I have a "birthday" in my public profile. When someone on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte connects to me, and I confirm that connection, my "birthday" will be added to their event calendar, and they will be notified about my "birthday" every year. This might also work for users on PieFed which has an event calendar, too, although I'm not sure if PieFed understands these birthday fields.
(4/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Events
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@Jasper Burns
Groups, part 3: Replying to a thread, and how conversations work
If you want to reply, just reply. It's good manners to mention whomever you're directly replying to, and even that only if you're replying to a reply. But you don't have to mention anyone to reach anyone. Even then, your reply will be boosted to everyone who has received the top post.
Even if you reply to Carol who has replied to Bob who has replied to Alice who has started a thread in the group.
Within Mastodon, you'd have to mention Carol so she receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Bob so he receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Alice so she receives and sees your reply.
Conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte work much more like on Facebook: Your reply will go past Carol. Past Bob. Past Alice. Straight to the group account/channel. From there to Alice because she has started the conversation. And to Bob and Carol because they have received the quote-post of Alice's post. And to everyone else who has received the quote-post of Alice's post.
Now, how does everyone see your reply?
At this point, it's important to say that a Friendica feed or a Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte stream looks vastly different from a Twitter feed or a Mastodon timeline and much more like a Facebook feed. Again, that's because Friendica was a Facebook alternative long before Twitter clones became the default. And Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are direct descendants of Friendica with largely the same purpose. So no mimicking Twitter's behaviour here.
What does your Mastodon timeline look like? Single posts with no context. And more single posts with no context. You receive a new post, it immediately shows up at the top of your timeline as a single post with no context. You have no idea how many unread messages you have. You want to see the context of a post, you have to click and click and click.
Facebook doesn't show you single-post-with-no-context piecemeal. Neither do Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. They always show you entire conversations with the top post and with all comments.
Imagine your Mastodon timeline. But instead of single posts with no context, you always see entire conversations with the top post and all replies; that is, you actually only see the last three replies, but you can easily unfold the thread view and see everything.
Imagine whenever someone replies to a post that you already have in your timeline, you automatically receive that reply.
Imagine that you have a little counter of unread messages somewhere. When you receive a new post, the counter goes up by one. When you receive a new reply, the counter goes up by one. But neither that new post nor that new reply is automatically added to the top of your timeline.
Now you click the counter of unread messages. Out comes a list of unread messages. Not the messages proper. A list, including who sent them and, if that's the case, whom they reply to (not as in whom they directly reply to, as in Carol in the above example, but who wrote the top post, as in Alice in the above example).
You can click on any item in the list. Imagine you do. You will leave the timeline view. You will be shown only that one conversation with the top post and the comments. And the view will focus on the new comment and flag it as seen, and the counter of unread messages will go down by one. You can scroll through the conversation and see the entire context in which that reply was posted.
This is what Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups are geared towards. They aren't group add-ons to Mastodon, and they aren't geared towards integrating perfectly into Mastodon. Remember that Friendica groups are almost six years older than Mastodon itself.
I'm not sure how exactly Mastodon users receive replies from Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups or Forte groups. One thing is certain: They will not visibly mention you. Another thing is certain: They will send you replies regardless.
I can only guess what happens: You do get replies. But you get them as new posts in your timeline. And you have to scroll down your timeline until you stumble upon them. If you really want to participate in groups, if you really want to see everything that happens there, you'll have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll down your timeline until you hit posts which you know you've seen before. You probably won't be notified about these replies.
(3/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups #Conversation #Conversations
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@Jasper Burns
Groups, part 2: Starting a thread
Okay, here comes the twist. Here is where the group magic happens.
If you want to start a new thread in that group, you have to be a member of the group account. Connected to the group account. In Mastospeak, mutually follow the group account.
Then, if you send a new post that mentions the group account, and it is not a reply to another post, then the group account will automatically quote your post and send the quote-post with your post in it to all its connections (followers).
You know quotes? Quote-posts? Like, quote-tweets? What half of Mastodon is so afraid of because it's used on Twitter only to harass and dogpile people? That's what I'm talking about. Friendica has had these quote-posts for almost 16 years, and never have they been used for harassment and dogpiling, for never has anyone used Friendica as a drop-in replacement for Twitter. Friendica calls them "shares". And Friendica has used these quote-posts in groups for almost 16 years.
That is, within Friendica (and its descendants), one thing is a wee bit different: If you're on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte, you have to send a DM with a special mention (!group instead of @group on Friendica, @!group on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte) to the group account for this to happen. This automatically activates what's "mentioned only" on Mastodon and makes your post a DM.
But from Mastodon accounts and the like, it accepts public posts with @group mentions. That's because Mastodon & Co. don't know !group and @!group mentions.
(2/9)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Groups #FediGroups #FediverseGroups
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@dtm I’m glad it’s working, and welcome to the fediverse. 😊
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@box464 That’s a big deal for me. Thanks for helping.
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@dtm If you’re interested in the specifics, check this out!
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@dtm If you change anything about the url, it will refetch. So just add a fake query string to the end and you’ll see the updated link.
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@dtm No problem!
