Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@zzt @firefoxwebdevs the translation feature is older than ChatGPT's release.
It was not made up for this quiz to annoy AI haters.
Its been there. For a while.
It uses technology that probably falls under the umbrella term "AI".
And the people creating the AI kill switch are not sure if it should be toggled by it.
So the ask the community.
This is the weirdest recent Mozilla post to hate on.@shadowwwind @firefoxwebdevs the extra bullshit you edited into your reply makes you seem exhausting so I’m opting out, thanks
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs AI should be an extension. Then it doesn't matter and everyone is happy. It's such a very odd hill to die on when the solution is an extension.
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@zzt @firefoxwebdevs Why would Mozilla translations be built into the browser but other developers have to make them as add-ons? Or will Mozilla accept PRs for third-party translators to be built into the Firefox browser?
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs please don't call it the "design" of the kill switch when you have to ask *us* what it should kill—as some kind of transparency/openness posturing.
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@firefoxwebdevs this is my issue with calling everything “AI”.
I’m happy (dependent, even!) on local ML-powered computational photography eking out great shots from a tiny camera. But I don’t want my camera completely inventing details with generative AI when I zoom in.
I’m happy for my phone to “know” what I am typing even if I didn’t hit the keys perfectly, based on federated learning. But I don’t want my phone to rephrase things with an LLM.
All of this is considered “AI” now. 🙃
@cassidy @firefoxwebdevs this is because it's an AI marketing lie. "ha, you say you hate slop, so does that mean you hate *xrays* now? Checkmate, AI hater!"
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I answered "no". Notes:
* you need to rebrand "ai" to something making sense. Is it everything with a chat interface? Is it everything that sends information to a 3rd party?
* I do think a model trained for translation should be called a language model -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs If you want to offer a kind of “kill switch” for AI, it should really disable everything, regardless of the technical differences. For me, "kill switch" means "all or nothing". Otherwise, you would have to explain why there are exceptions. At the same time, however, it should be easy to enable individual features like the translation feature. Bonus points if the advantage of each AI feature could be explained in simple terms and whether local or cloud AI is used.
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@firefoxwebdevs @zzt
" I want to make sure the community's voice is represented in these discussions."Then KILL ALL The stupid non-browser functions.
Remove ALL AI code.
Make Firefox work.
Fix printing,Make it follow system GUI / theme.
Stop copying Chrome or Wiindows.
@raymaccarthy sounds like what you want is curl
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs not trying to split hairs here but how are the ML models doing translation when they are not LLMs? Maybe they are not as huge as ChatGPT but they are transformers probably with all that entails.
(A Killswitch should of course kill all ML/AI functionality and people could then reactivate certain specific features of they want to, it's really not that hard. Just cause you consider a feature"better" than others does not override consent practices.)
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs "AI" isn't a real thing. When we use the word "AI", we (and you) mean something completely different from "Artificial Intelligence", basically referring to "things that we wouldn't have used machine learning for before 2018, because before 2018 we recognized it does not work for those purposes".
However, translation should still be a removable extension, for a variety of reasons, one being that the Simple Translate plugin is actually better than your builtin translation support.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Can you clarify the distinction you’re making between LLMs and open data? Was the latter collected with consent?
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@firefoxwebdevs it would be nice if the "AI kill switch" had:
a list of each of the models used, what for, and whether they're trained on open data, each having a "disable this" switch
a thing right at the top of the list which says "I don't care, kill all this AI stuff"but that would require putting a list of all the different things that Firefox is now using AI for and whether each is using fair models or not, which I suspect a lot of management won't want to document clearly to users
@sil @firefoxwebdevs I suspect they can't, even if they wanted to.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs The translation feature was unnecessary to begin with. I suspect y'all know this.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs
There shouldn't be an AI killswitch. There should be an AI enableswitch.It's like programmers forgot the default bit is 0, not 1.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs
I personally think just a translation model doesn't need to be killed by the AI switch, but perhaps a toggle, right next to it to also disable that? That way people who don't want that either can just disable that. Adding context regarding what the translation model actually is may be a good idea as well.I'm honestly impressed that Firefox is now asking direct feedback for stuff like this.
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@zzt @firefoxwebdevs please don't call it the "design" of the kill switch when you have to ask *us* what it should kill—as some kind of transparency/openness posturing.
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs You'd never have to say "consent", "opt in", "opt out", or "kill switch" again if you put design energy into overcoming whatever (WHATEVER) barriers are preventing all of these things being add-ons.
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@zzt @firefoxwebdevs You'd never have to say "consent", "opt in", "opt out", or "kill switch" again if you put design energy into overcoming whatever (WHATEVER) barriers are preventing all of these things being add-ons.
@fasterandworse @firefoxwebdevs it’s bold of you to tell Mozilla to throw their entire executive board and most of their PMs into the office dumpster (the one the kitchen uses) and reform as a co-op but I agree
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@fasterandworse @firefoxwebdevs it’s bold of you to tell Mozilla to throw their entire executive board and most of their PMs into the office dumpster (the one the kitchen uses) and reform as a co-op but I agree
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs now would be good, before that new CMO is breathing heavily over the shoulder
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@firefoxwebdevs jonah, I hate to break it to you and the LLM shaped like a product manager that’s setting the agenda for your meetings, but the only time I hear about Firefox translations in any context is when Mozilla PMs try to hold it up as an example of an ethical, low-resource, useful AI feature so they can convince to be a fan of the worthless LLM shit they’re actually there to push
the reason why I don’t hear about translations otherwise is simple: it’s shit
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs I've used it numerous times this week and it looks good to me.
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@zzt @firefoxwebdevs I've used it numerous times this week and it looks good to me.
@tasket @firefoxwebdevs holy shit Josh you’ve done it you’ve found the user!
quick ask them if the LLM kill switch should also turn off manifest v2 they might go for it
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
If a kill switch doesn’t kill can it still be called a kill switch?
The best solution is to divide those functionalities. Translation can be a completely separate function.
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They're accelerating this stuff. And if you're like "whew, guess I'm glad I'm not in Kansas!"
There are people who *are* in Kansas and not everyone has an easy choice in the matter. And also they're invalidating birth certificates, too, and that's much harder to deal with.
And this is just the prototype. They want to roll this out nationally, and where they can, internationally.
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