Blacksky has already built their own ATProto stack that's fully independent from Bluesky.
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We're probably speaking past each other.
The fediverse still isn't some homogenous blob where what you said applies universally. It's all down to individual instances and their moderators.
Granted, the largest instances probably have the worst time dealing with moderation.
But I have a hard time seeing @rolle walk past bad behaviour on the instance he runs, ditto for the org that runs my instance.
@pahoittelemme A lot of the problematic behavior is insidious, though.
Asking Black people to prove there is racism. Asking women to "just block" every single individual harasser. Telling people to "just" stop using Big Tech products. To add alt text. Not acknowledging some of the good things they're already doing and demanding perfection. Tone policing. Demanding very specific use of CWs.
All of these people are just trying to be helpful, right? Not really breaking any "rules".
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@pahoittelemme A lot of the problematic behavior is insidious, though.
Asking Black people to prove there is racism. Asking women to "just block" every single individual harasser. Telling people to "just" stop using Big Tech products. To add alt text. Not acknowledging some of the good things they're already doing and demanding perfection. Tone policing. Demanding very specific use of CWs.
All of these people are just trying to be helpful, right? Not really breaking any "rules".
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Yes, Blacksky does indeed host PDSs that are open to everyone! You can sign up there for a new account, or migrate an existing account. https://docs.blacksky.community/migrating-to-blacksky-pds-complete-guide has the details.
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@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?
You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.
It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.
https://mastodon-analytics.com
Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.
It's the culture here.
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@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?
You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.
It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.
https://mastodon-analytics.com
Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.
It's the culture here.
@stefan I don't have that grim of a sentiment that Stefan has, I'll always root for the Fediverse. However, he has a point, because in retrospect the whole reason Bluesky's ATProto was born was this:
"The AP community has always been somewhat suspicious of Bluesky, for reasons that are understandable. AP’s community is volunteer driven and the users joined to escape Twitter. So, here we come, a startup funded by Twitter, with strong opinions on how the tech should be done. I’ve heard concerns that we’d “embrace, extend, & extinguish.” I’ve heard concerns that we’d force through changes that people don’t want by dint of being a funded company. You can criticize us for going a different direction but I think it’d have been a difficult collaboration if we chose to use AP, especially since we weren’t willing to compromise on some of the decisions above."
https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/255#issuecomment-1287953987
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@stefan I don't have that grim of a sentiment that Stefan has, I'll always root for the Fediverse. However, he has a point, because in retrospect the whole reason Bluesky's ATProto was born was this:
"The AP community has always been somewhat suspicious of Bluesky, for reasons that are understandable. AP’s community is volunteer driven and the users joined to escape Twitter. So, here we come, a startup funded by Twitter, with strong opinions on how the tech should be done. I’ve heard concerns that we’d “embrace, extend, & extinguish.” I’ve heard concerns that we’d force through changes that people don’t want by dint of being a funded company. You can criticize us for going a different direction but I think it’d have been a difficult collaboration if we chose to use AP, especially since we weren’t willing to compromise on some of the decisions above."
https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/255#issuecomment-1287953987
Also we know that if you even hint of "forbidden subjects" like using public data unconsensually open to interpretation, Artificial Intelligence, for-profit company stuff, etc. you get easily attacked here.
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Also we know that if you even hint of "forbidden subjects" like using public data unconsensually open to interpretation, Artificial Intelligence, for-profit company stuff, etc. you get easily attacked here.
@stefan I remember a time on the Fediverse when even replying to someone's post was seen as the wrong thing to do. You'd get labeled as a "reply guy". Haven't seen a thing like that in anywhere else. @pahoittelemme
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@stefan I remember a time on the Fediverse when even replying to someone's post was seen as the wrong thing to do. You'd get labeled as a "reply guy". Haven't seen a thing like that in anywhere else. @pahoittelemme
@stefan My feed has been mostly peaceful lately, but Fedi has its own set of problems. It tries so hard to protect its users from harmful things, yet ends up creating its own issues as a result. I guess every social space has its challenges. @pahoittelemme
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Also we know that if you even hint of "forbidden subjects" like using public data unconsensually open to interpretation, Artificial Intelligence, for-profit company stuff, etc. you get easily attacked here.
@rolle Yeah, I don't know, I'm not a big fan of LLMs/GenAI, but people who viciously attack each individual user one by one instead of calling their representative and demanding stricter environmental protection laws and labor laws don't come across as serious people, to say the least.
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@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?
You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.
It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.
https://mastodon-analytics.com
Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.
It's the culture here.
blacksky exists because many black people didn't like the culture on bluesky either. we have culture problems but everywhere does. fundamentally I think our problem is critical mass. bluesky got that for lots of reasons, but the perception of them as simpler and better search etc might go away as other AT stacks pop up.
[I think our big advantage should be that every piece of writing or AV could be an AP item, but we haven't seen much progress on that yet.]
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@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?
You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.
It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.
https://mastodon-analytics.com
Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.
It's the culture here.
@stefan @pahoittelemme @rolle it's simple, there aren't enough celebrities and social media influencers on here. People say they want real connection but they want cheap dopamine hits. Most people anyway
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@stefan @pahoittelemme @rolle it's simple, there aren't enough celebrities and social media influencers on here. People say they want real connection but they want cheap dopamine hits. Most people anyway
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Blacksky has already built their own ATProto stack that's fully independent from Bluesky.
Now Eurosky is making progress as they roll out their own PDS.
I see more independent infrastructure springing up on https://atp.fyi/network, including AppViews.
For anyone hoping that we'll get another wave of people coming to the fediverse once Bluesky folds/enshittifies, that might not necessarily be the case as people will have more options to stay in the Atmosphere.
My take is that internet standards should be authored by bodies like the IETF and the W3C. Not by techbros. That's why I'm here.
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@pahoittelemme But Bluesky didn't have celebrities either at one point.
And if they did show up here, people would just drive them away, we've seen that with popular Youtubers, for example. Or anyone who uses social media for work.
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My take is that internet standards should be authored by bodies like the IETF and the W3C. Not by techbros. That's why I'm here.
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@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?
You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.
It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.
https://mastodon-analytics.com
Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.
It's the culture here.
@stefan @pahoittelemme @rolle
On a slight sidetrack... looking at the numbers for bluesky it doesn't look like it's any better when it comes to users vs. active users. So a lot of people don't want to be there either.Lies < damned lies < statistics, I know. And those mastodon analytics linked seem to be outdated as well.
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@pahoittelemme Are you thinking of millions of inactive users?
https://mastodon-analytics.com
The hostility, particularly towards Black people has been well documented.
https://logicmag.io/policy/blackness-in-the-fediverse-a-conversation-with-marcia-x/
https://privacy.thenexus.today/start-making-the-fediverse-less-toxic/
Every few days there is a woman talking about the sexism on here. Seems really hard to miss this stuff.
@stefan this is super serious. A question I keep thinking is if people don't face those things on BlueSky and other networks? @pahoittelemme @rolle
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@pahoittelemme Kind of a moot point. Bluesky has people. Twitter has people. So why do so few people want to be here?
You can't just attribute this to bad UX. People on Bluesky complain about not being able to edit posts, create private accounts, blocks being public, all kinds of UX problems.
It's not even an issue of having to pick a server, look at all the people who figured out that part, and now they're gone.
https://mastodon-analytics.com
Some will say that fediverse is "too complicated", but we've seen people install VPNs to get around TikTok bans and age restrictions, and now they're talking about migrating between PDSes and AppViews on Bluesky.
It's the culture here.
@Stefan Bohacek @Lentävä Kalakukko @Roni Rolle Laukkarinen Thing is, many expect the Fediverse to be one big perfectly cosy and fluffy hugbox in which everyone is always nice to one another. 100% anti-racist, 100% anti-sexist, 100% anti-ableist and so forth.
Also, they expect it to be only Mastodon. They expect it to be nothing but a microblogging service with no more than 500 characters.
Why? Because it's basically exactly that that the Fediverse has been implied (or outright announced) being to them, and be it by telling them that "the Fediverse" is the polar opposite of 𝕏 culture-wise.
The moment that any of the above proves itself to them as not true, they're so deeply disturbed that they're making a mad dash towards the exit, even though they don't know where else to go. Either that, or they make it their goal to fight for the Fediverse to become what they thought it is.
It's largely because of these people that the Fediverse becomes a minefield for all non-Mastodon Fediverse users the very moment they establish their very first contact with Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #MastodonCulture #FediverseCulture -
Blacksky has already built their own ATProto stack that's fully independent from Bluesky.
Now Eurosky is making progress as they roll out their own PDS.
I see more independent infrastructure springing up on https://atp.fyi/network, including AppViews.
For anyone hoping that we'll get another wave of people coming to the fediverse once Bluesky folds/enshittifies, that might not necessarily be the case as people will have more options to stay in the Atmosphere.
@stefan serious question - to what degree can Blacksky operate if they are completely severed from Bluesky?
I.e. If Bluesky LLC cuts off access to Bluesky LLC operated infrastructure, does Blacksky still exist?
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And I know, some of you don't care, you want to keep the fediverse toxic and unwelcoming, I guess that's fine. It's just a shame.
And for the "I'm just trying to be genuinely helpful" crowd:
https://stefanbohacek.online/@stefan/116008392469985653
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@thisismissem ironically, I am debating rolling back the summary generation logic for NodeBB because sending the first 500 chars means fewer people go off-site to read the rest of the post.
I was able to get much more engagement by sending the entire darn thing in summary.
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@hongminhee I also have one running with the latest alphas if needed. Let me know!
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Just don't set as:sensitive with summary because that'll trigger a content warning!
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@hongminhee cc @ivan and @mayel 🔥
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MastoBlaster is now available in public testing on TestFlight.
It is a lightweight, privacy-first Fediverse client for iOS, built around a simple idea: fast, small, predictable behavior, and first-class support for snac.
What makes it different:
• snac-first by design, not "compatible by accident"
• Works with all Mastodon API compatible software, including Mastodon, snac, GoToSocial, Akkoma, and others
• EXIF stripping on upload (HDR and orientation preserved)
• Optional on-device alt text generation via Apple Intelligence for your uploads and for images in your timeline
• Markdown posting for snac
• Granular notifications, grouping, multi-account
• Blocking and moderation tools
• Very small footprint, very low RAM usage
Alt text generation happens entirely on device via Apple APIs on supported hardware. Nothing is sent to external services.
It is built around my own workflow and priorities. It may not be for everyone, and that is perfectly fine.
Important note:
MastoBlaster will always be free for BSD Cafe users, illumos Cafe users, and for anyone connecting to a snac instance, including self-hosted ones.
The app is already usable, but this is still a test phase. I am looking for feedback, bug reports, and real-world usage insights.
TestFlight link:
https://testflight.apple.com/join/Pkxa5R1k
Stay tuned.
#MastoBlaster #iOS #Apple #Fediverse #Mastodon #snac #GoToSocial #Akkoma #ActivityPub
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@fedicat@pc.cafe Oh, didn't know that. Thank you!
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@hongminhee I was able to register a bonfire test account on indieweb.studio
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@Zoufalec @mastoblaster @napierge Thank you for your feedback! The multi-account feature should be working correctly, but I will do some extra checks on my end. As for the rest, this is the very first beta of a new app, and the TestFlight phase is meant exactly for this: to help development and fix things that aren't working yet.
I'm taking note of your comments and will work to improve everything.
