My dad and I started watching Once Upon A Time In Northern Ireland today, on his request.
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@astronomerritt It fucking is the bunch of berks.
@astronomerritt
@purplepadma is berk considered a big swear word? -
@astronomerritt
@purplepadma is berk considered a big swear word?@BenCotterill @purplepadma I personally wouldn't even consider it a swear word. I know where it comes from, my English granddad was always at the rhyming slang, but it still doesn't register as remotely sweary to me.
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it's also classist as fuck, imo, but I am told I need to stop turning everything into a class issue
(everything IS a class issue, you can fight me AND the chip on my shoulder)
Every British person does a subconscious class calculation when they meet someone, whether they admit to it or not. You want to know if someone is "like you" so you know how to speak to them and how to relate to them. But I mess up the calculations. I've got too many middle-class indicators now from being highly educated. (That's classism for you!) So swearing is, for me, often a way to reassure someone working-class that we're on the same level and can relate to each other as such.
It's annoying, though. I don't get angry at people much, but a close colleague once tried to joke that the Pulp song Common People was about me, having gotten the impression that my working-class indicators were the pretension, and not the middle-class ones. The idea that I might read as one of those fucking idiots who pretends to be working-class because they think it's "cool" drives me round the bend.
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@junklight My partner works with Americans and thus has to keep their language "professional", and they have actually said that they feel like it's much harder to be candid and genuine when they can't swear.
@astronomerritt@hachyderm.io @junklight@mastodon.art as an american i feel this. it's inappropriate to tell someone "we're fucked" in a professional setting, which unsurprisingly makes it really difficult to accurately convey the degree to which things are fucked.
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It's always a bit jarring to me when I see folk complain about bad language online, using phrases like "nobody has to use those words" and "it's always vulgar" and "it sounds uneducated".
Please understand: that is cultural bias.
@astronomerritt It absolutely incenses me when eg callcenters get trained to disengage the moment someone swears
fucking forced “civility” and tone policing directly meant as a subjugation tactic, “bow before your friendly corporate overlord and pray we assist”
pitchforks and torches. I hate the fucking phrase “it should be illegal” (because so much dislike of legal system usage) but _that feeling_
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Every British person does a subconscious class calculation when they meet someone, whether they admit to it or not. You want to know if someone is "like you" so you know how to speak to them and how to relate to them. But I mess up the calculations. I've got too many middle-class indicators now from being highly educated. (That's classism for you!) So swearing is, for me, often a way to reassure someone working-class that we're on the same level and can relate to each other as such.
It's annoying, though. I don't get angry at people much, but a close colleague once tried to joke that the Pulp song Common People was about me, having gotten the impression that my working-class indicators were the pretension, and not the middle-class ones. The idea that I might read as one of those fucking idiots who pretends to be working-class because they think it's "cool" drives me round the bend.
I also feel I need to explain, for Americans and other strange creatures, that class in Britain has absolutely nothing to do with how much money you have. You're born into a class and you're not getting out of it. It's your upbringing and your background and your language and your culture.
Your kids might be of a different class to you. Your grandkids certainly can be. But you're stuck with where you're born, and British society tends not to like it if you pretend otherwise.
Do not take this explanation for approval.
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@astronomerritt@hachyderm.io @junklight@mastodon.art as an american i feel this. it's inappropriate to tell someone "we're fucked" in a professional setting, which unsurprisingly makes it really difficult to accurately convey the degree to which things are fucked.
@fen @junklight Exactly! Like, now you have to stop and think "how do I convey the level of fuckedness we are at without actually saying fuck?" and the impact is gone.
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@astronomerritt It absolutely incenses me when eg callcenters get trained to disengage the moment someone swears
fucking forced “civility” and tone policing directly meant as a subjugation tactic, “bow before your friendly corporate overlord and pray we assist”
pitchforks and torches. I hate the fucking phrase “it should be illegal” (because so much dislike of legal system usage) but _that feeling_
@froztbyte There's a segment of the world that just cannot comprehend the difference between being sworn around and sworn AT. The latter is rude. The first is just normal fucking communication.
I worked in call centres and believe me, I knew when I was being sworn at. We were allowed to make judgement calls though. Usually when people were swearing on the line I had to suppress the part of me that wanted to go "you're right, that is a load of shit" or whatever 😆
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I also feel I need to explain, for Americans and other strange creatures, that class in Britain has absolutely nothing to do with how much money you have. You're born into a class and you're not getting out of it. It's your upbringing and your background and your language and your culture.
Your kids might be of a different class to you. Your grandkids certainly can be. But you're stuck with where you're born, and British society tends not to like it if you pretend otherwise.
Do not take this explanation for approval.
@astronomerritt I grew up mostly comfortably middle class in a working class town with working class friends. I've been aggressively code-switching since I was four.
And I'm still very, very bad at wealthy white American class signifiers, which has been a major barrier for me at times.
Also: those people absolutely do not understand the difference between code-switching and appropriation, and sometimes need bopped on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
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I also feel I need to explain, for Americans and other strange creatures, that class in Britain has absolutely nothing to do with how much money you have. You're born into a class and you're not getting out of it. It's your upbringing and your background and your language and your culture.
Your kids might be of a different class to you. Your grandkids certainly can be. But you're stuck with where you're born, and British society tends not to like it if you pretend otherwise.
Do not take this explanation for approval.
@astronomerritt 100% this. It’s akin to the caste system in India.
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@froztbyte There's a segment of the world that just cannot comprehend the difference between being sworn around and sworn AT. The latter is rude. The first is just normal fucking communication.
I worked in call centres and believe me, I knew when I was being sworn at. We were allowed to make judgement calls though. Usually when people were swearing on the line I had to suppress the part of me that wanted to go "you're right, that is a load of shit" or whatever 😆
@astronomerritt ^^ this
in the last 2y or so, a lot of the local types have been training center agents to disengage (or sometimes even outright hang up). but I think that's _utter fucking bullshit_ because very often _the reason you are calling_ is because of a fuckup. of COURSE that caller is going to be agitated
it also doesn't help that we have ... compounding (local) problems
such a disaster
lol at having to suppress! "Compliance Would Like A Word" just came to mind
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@astronomerritt I grew up mostly comfortably middle class in a working class town with working class friends. I've been aggressively code-switching since I was four.
And I'm still very, very bad at wealthy white American class signifiers, which has been a major barrier for me at times.
Also: those people absolutely do not understand the difference between code-switching and appropriation, and sometimes need bopped on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
@tess Oh, god, the code-switching! It made introducing my family to people in my professional life so awkward because suddenly I didn't know how to talk any more.
I sympathise. I still make mistakes in my middle-class persona and have said things in professional settings that I really shouldn't have. Weirdly, it's the wealthy upper-middle classes I've had the most trouble with. Upper-class Brits tend to be more laid back. A benefit of the highest form of privilege, I expect.
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@astronomerritt ^^ this
in the last 2y or so, a lot of the local types have been training center agents to disengage (or sometimes even outright hang up). but I think that's _utter fucking bullshit_ because very often _the reason you are calling_ is because of a fuckup. of COURSE that caller is going to be agitated
it also doesn't help that we have ... compounding (local) problems
such a disaster
lol at having to suppress! "Compliance Would Like A Word" just came to mind
@froztbyte I think it’s down to two factors. First, it’s cheaper to tell call agents to hang up than it is to actually train them in de-escalation. Second, they’re all supposed to lick company bunghole and never admit that the company did anything wrong, so it’s hard for them to de-escalate anyway.
I used to be good with angry customers. Turns out genuinely sympathising with people and saying things like “you’re right, that’s unacceptable” tends to get them on-side. Probably wouldn’t be allowed to do that any more.
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@astronomerritt 100% this. It’s akin to the caste system in India.
@hedders @astronomerritt Really? Does "British society tends not to like it" mean something much more violent than I had imagined?
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@tess Oh, god, the code-switching! It made introducing my family to people in my professional life so awkward because suddenly I didn't know how to talk any more.
I sympathise. I still make mistakes in my middle-class persona and have said things in professional settings that I really shouldn't have. Weirdly, it's the wealthy upper-middle classes I've had the most trouble with. Upper-class Brits tend to be more laid back. A benefit of the highest form of privilege, I expect.
@astronomerritt @tess Fun fact: Southern Irish professional classes swear like Glasgow dockers. We know the posh words to describe our desired intent, but there’s a time when you need to channel your internal Malcom Tucker.
https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/ttoi-malcolm-tucker-peter-capaldi-the-thick-of-it-gif-10919168
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I also feel I need to explain, for Americans and other strange creatures, that class in Britain has absolutely nothing to do with how much money you have. You're born into a class and you're not getting out of it. It's your upbringing and your background and your language and your culture.
Your kids might be of a different class to you. Your grandkids certainly can be. But you're stuck with where you're born, and British society tends not to like it if you pretend otherwise.
Do not take this explanation for approval.
@astronomerritt when someone told me its practically a caste system I understood it better
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@hedders @astronomerritt Really? Does "British society tends not to like it" mean something much more violent than I had imagined?
@amenonsen @hedders I was about to say, it’s certainly not nearly as virulent in its expression as the Indian caste system, but in the specific sense that you’re born into it and can’t shake it, it’s similar.
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@froztbyte I think it’s down to two factors. First, it’s cheaper to tell call agents to hang up than it is to actually train them in de-escalation. Second, they’re all supposed to lick company bunghole and never admit that the company did anything wrong, so it’s hard for them to de-escalate anyway.
I used to be good with angry customers. Turns out genuinely sympathising with people and saying things like “you’re right, that’s unacceptable” tends to get them on-side. Probably wouldn’t be allowed to do that any more.
@astronomerritt yup. _and_ the many-call-centers practice of goodhart's law, making low-duration high-volume calls the estimated target
I sigh deeply
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It's always a bit jarring to me when I see folk complain about bad language online, using phrases like "nobody has to use those words" and "it's always vulgar" and "it sounds uneducated".
Please understand: that is cultural bias.
@astronomerritt It may well be vulgar and even uneducated, but it also cuts through the crap and gets our attention, eh? That seems to me like using language effectively, in all its breadth.
As with so many things in recent years, I find myself thinking yet again of Doctor King's letter from a Birmingham jail.
"…the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice…"
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@astronomerritt when someone told me its practically a caste system I understood it better
@cursedsql It’s not as violent and openly unpleasant and oppressive as most caste systems have been, but in the sense that you're born inescapably into it, yeah.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@Pare @luca @dariosoldi @torino
La pianura padana è un unicum.
Aria ferma, protetta da alpi ed appennini, con una altissima densità abitativa.
Le misure antismog citate sono palliativi.
In PP non solo le città sono inquinate, poco cambia in periferia.
Non bisogna bruciare.
Per poterlo fare il nucleare è la tecnologia pronta.
In PP poco sole e niente vento.
Cosa rimane?
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@filobus giusta osservazione quella sulla longevità. D'altronde visto che potersi levare di torno quando si hanno le gonadi piene è una condizione molto gettonata per l'immortalità, direi che la longevità è in realtà ciò che si cerca. Riguardo alle fasi della vita, non credo che vi siano altre fasi, ma che cambi la loro durata (a seconda di quale si allunga).
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Nel 2016 moriva Nanni Salio, promotore del pensiero nonviolento e ricercatore. Quest’anno per il decennale è prevista la digitalizzazione di una selezione di testi del fondo archivistico di Nanni Salio conservato presso il Centro Studi Sereno Regis e la realizzazione di una antologia di testi in quattro sezioni, che ripercorrono gli ambiti del suo pensiero e della sua ricerca.
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La scuola nel 1958
La sua importanza, che oggi si tende a sottovalutare.
Oggi come allora è importante, anche se il livello è più alto.
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@oblomov @filobus le mie condizioni: allungare indefinitamente il periodo della maturità psico/fisica (30/40 anni), poter decidere che anche basta, oppure mettersi in uno stato di sonno/trance stile vampiro. In questo periodo ci sto pensando molto, complice anche il rewatching dell'ottimo Frieren, che sul tema dell'estrema longevità e dello straniamento che questa comporta nella percezione del tempo e nei rapporti personali.
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@cmconseils thneed
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@ErickaSimone have you tried Lemmy or NodeBB or Discourse? There are a few federated forum tools out there.
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@oblomov mi ricorda un po' Ricomincio da capo
Altro esempio di longevità è l'imperatore dio di Dune (ma anche la trasmissione tra le bene gesserit della "consapevolezza" delle altre sorelle decedute)
In ogni caso longevità e immortalità sono cose ben diverse
Chissà come vivono la vita gli alberi millenari...
E ci sono le fasi della vita, quindi cosa vuol dire essere in fasi della vita per noi inimmaginabili?
