A lot of people are resistant to any kind of business uses for the #Fediverse , but consider this:
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A lot of people are resistant to any kind of business uses for the #Fediverse , but consider this:
- While most of us here are rightfully scornful of #Capitalism , the notion of a "market economy" is not going to go away. There are innumerable small to midsized businesses in the world who _aren't_ like the Capitalists we know and loathe - they haven't established any monopolies, they haven't managed regulatory capture, and they are oppressed by Big Tech just as much as ordinary people are.
- For many such businesses, maybe even the majority, a #Facebook Business Page is more important than a website, and thus many such small businesses _only_ have a Facebook Business Page, since it is far easier to set up than hosting your own website on your own domain, it is easier for your customers to find you there (because #GoogleSucks ), and it is easier for you to interact with your customers as well.
I think it would be very worthwhile if the Fediverse would develop an alternative to Facebook Business Pages for such businesses.
A good example for an industry that could benefit from such "Fediverse Business Pages" would be the #TTRPG industry. While some gamers might whine that "RPG books cost too much these days!", the reality is that this is an industry that has razor-thin margins, and only the very biggest TTRPG companies have employees that number more than in the single digits. Every business decision they have to make must involve the question:
"Is this worth the effort?"
Well, if there _was_ a Fediverse Business Page system that was either easy to self-host, or easy to join on larger instances, and which had a similar design to Facebook Business Pages, then there wouldn't be much effort involved in adding the same material to the former if they already maintained the latter. And as #Meta declines, the Fediverse could gradually take its place.
What would such a Fediverse Business Page require? It would need an ActivityPub-enabled feed, of course. It would need a configurable link list that would point towards their product pages or sales platforms, as well as space for all the usual business information. And it would require a robust scheduling system with a calendar view (I used the one provided by Meta for a time, and I think it is possible to do better).
Did I miss any important features?
Oh, and the same system would work well for non-business organizations as well - whether clubs, NGOs, or even political parties!
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A lot of people are resistant to any kind of business uses for the #Fediverse , but consider this:
- While most of us here are rightfully scornful of #Capitalism , the notion of a "market economy" is not going to go away. There are innumerable small to midsized businesses in the world who _aren't_ like the Capitalists we know and loathe - they haven't established any monopolies, they haven't managed regulatory capture, and they are oppressed by Big Tech just as much as ordinary people are.
- For many such businesses, maybe even the majority, a #Facebook Business Page is more important than a website, and thus many such small businesses _only_ have a Facebook Business Page, since it is far easier to set up than hosting your own website on your own domain, it is easier for your customers to find you there (because #GoogleSucks ), and it is easier for you to interact with your customers as well.
I think it would be very worthwhile if the Fediverse would develop an alternative to Facebook Business Pages for such businesses.
A good example for an industry that could benefit from such "Fediverse Business Pages" would be the #TTRPG industry. While some gamers might whine that "RPG books cost too much these days!", the reality is that this is an industry that has razor-thin margins, and only the very biggest TTRPG companies have employees that number more than in the single digits. Every business decision they have to make must involve the question:
"Is this worth the effort?"
Well, if there _was_ a Fediverse Business Page system that was either easy to self-host, or easy to join on larger instances, and which had a similar design to Facebook Business Pages, then there wouldn't be much effort involved in adding the same material to the former if they already maintained the latter. And as #Meta declines, the Fediverse could gradually take its place.
What would such a Fediverse Business Page require? It would need an ActivityPub-enabled feed, of course. It would need a configurable link list that would point towards their product pages or sales platforms, as well as space for all the usual business information. And it would require a robust scheduling system with a calendar view (I used the one provided by Meta for a time, and I think it is possible to do better).
Did I miss any important features?
Oh, and the same system would work well for non-business organizations as well - whether clubs, NGOs, or even political parties!
@juergen_hubert i think most of the things you mention can already be archived.
WordPress supports #activitypub and scheduled posting. Self hosting is a thing here, that way you can bundle the tools that you need to set up shop.Someone could start a dedicated marketplace instance to distinguish business accounts.
Imo a free (!) market place could be a great addition to the #fediverse
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A lot of people are resistant to any kind of business uses for the #Fediverse , but consider this:
- While most of us here are rightfully scornful of #Capitalism , the notion of a "market economy" is not going to go away. There are innumerable small to midsized businesses in the world who _aren't_ like the Capitalists we know and loathe - they haven't established any monopolies, they haven't managed regulatory capture, and they are oppressed by Big Tech just as much as ordinary people are.
- For many such businesses, maybe even the majority, a #Facebook Business Page is more important than a website, and thus many such small businesses _only_ have a Facebook Business Page, since it is far easier to set up than hosting your own website on your own domain, it is easier for your customers to find you there (because #GoogleSucks ), and it is easier for you to interact with your customers as well.
I think it would be very worthwhile if the Fediverse would develop an alternative to Facebook Business Pages for such businesses.
A good example for an industry that could benefit from such "Fediverse Business Pages" would be the #TTRPG industry. While some gamers might whine that "RPG books cost too much these days!", the reality is that this is an industry that has razor-thin margins, and only the very biggest TTRPG companies have employees that number more than in the single digits. Every business decision they have to make must involve the question:
"Is this worth the effort?"
Well, if there _was_ a Fediverse Business Page system that was either easy to self-host, or easy to join on larger instances, and which had a similar design to Facebook Business Pages, then there wouldn't be much effort involved in adding the same material to the former if they already maintained the latter. And as #Meta declines, the Fediverse could gradually take its place.
What would such a Fediverse Business Page require? It would need an ActivityPub-enabled feed, of course. It would need a configurable link list that would point towards their product pages or sales platforms, as well as space for all the usual business information. And it would require a robust scheduling system with a calendar view (I used the one provided by Meta for a time, and I think it is possible to do better).
Did I miss any important features?
Oh, and the same system would work well for non-business organizations as well - whether clubs, NGOs, or even political parties!
@juergen_hubert Isn’t Bomb Fire designed to do this very thing? It had it’s 1.0 release I beleive
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@juergen_hubert Isn’t Bomb Fire designed to do this very thing? It had it’s 1.0 release I beleive
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@juergen_hubert Yes I was thinking someone could take one of their apps and extensions and easily make a thing that you described https://bonfirenetworks.org/apps/
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@juergen_hubert Yes I was thinking someone could take one of their apps and extensions and easily make a thing that you described https://bonfirenetworks.org/apps/
Yes, Bonfire deserves a close look before starting something new.
AND i love this idea.
If it's not primarily self hosted, easy portability of both content and followers will be crucial to this project's success. These businesses can't afford to lose their hard work.
(Source: I've been actively building sites and designing digital marketing plans for small and medium sized businesses for 15 years.)
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Yes, Bonfire deserves a close look before starting something new.
AND i love this idea.
If it's not primarily self hosted, easy portability of both content and followers will be crucial to this project's success. These businesses can't afford to lose their hard work.
(Source: I've been actively building sites and designing digital marketing plans for small and medium sized businesses for 15 years.)
@alisynthesis @WeirdWriter @juergen_hubert i would also suggest that Emissary could be a good starting point for this, but yes I think Bonfire might be interesting here. Incidentally I think the notion of some kind of “business pages” is totally valid! /cc @benpate
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@alisynthesis @WeirdWriter @juergen_hubert i would also suggest that Emissary could be a good starting point for this, but yes I think Bonfire might be interesting here. Incidentally I think the notion of some kind of “business pages” is totally valid! /cc @benpate
@andypiper @alisynthesis @WeirdWriter @juergen_hubert @benpate HubZilla is also worth looking into for this.
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@juergen_hubert i think most of the things you mention can already be archived.
WordPress supports #activitypub and scheduled posting. Self hosting is a thing here, that way you can bundle the tools that you need to set up shop.Someone could start a dedicated marketplace instance to distinguish business accounts.
Imo a free (!) market place could be a great addition to the #fediverse
@moonshinebrigade @juergen_hubert I don't know where #Flohmarkt are at. They're focusing on classified ads, so I don't expect that there are any payment options available yet.
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@alisynthesis @WeirdWriter @juergen_hubert i would also suggest that Emissary could be a good starting point for this, but yes I think Bonfire might be interesting here. Incidentally I think the notion of some kind of “business pages” is totally valid! /cc @benpate
Hey Andy, thanks for the mention!
I might add a map of physical locations, and a map-based search for businesses.
@juergen_hubert - would you be interested in making a drawing or two of what this might look like? I'd be happy to make a prototype.
I have my hands full with.. stuff.. at the moment, so I'm not able to do much design work. But once we know what we're doing, the actual coding might only take an afternoon or two.
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Hey Andy, thanks for the mention!
I might add a map of physical locations, and a map-based search for businesses.
@juergen_hubert - would you be interested in making a drawing or two of what this might look like? I'd be happy to make a prototype.
I have my hands full with.. stuff.. at the moment, so I'm not able to do much design work. But once we know what we're doing, the actual coding might only take an afternoon or two.
@benpate @andypiper @alisynthesis @WeirdWriter
I'm also in the year-end rally at my day job, but I do have a two-week Christmas vacation coming up. I'll see if I can whip up something then!
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@benpate @andypiper @alisynthesis @WeirdWriter
I'm also in the year-end rally at my day job, but I do have a two-week Christmas vacation coming up. I'll see if I can whip up something then!
Perfect! Let’s make something awesome :)
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I am waiting for ActivityPub and the Fediverse to make an appearance. I would suspect that the "expensive and annoying game of whack-a-mole" will start to get very hard to manage.
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Perfect! Let’s make something awesome :)
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My approach to these issues is probably unfiltered, and I'm sorry if this makes my statements seem too categorical.
I should also point out that when I talk about Bluesky being tied to huge funding (and therefore adequate returns), I'm not expressing a moral judgment. I want to be completely non-partisan on the matter.
I simply wanted to provide my best explanation for the disruptions we're witnessing as a result of attempts at cross-pollination between the Blueskysphere and the Fedisphere.
Let me try to explain myself better:
considering the vertical nature of Bluesky PBC considering the horizontal nature of the Fediverse
I don't rule out the possibility of cross-pollination, but I do rule out the possibility of it being guided by the same principles.The development of the Fediverse is, in fact, driven by the community of developers who work only on the application layer and know that (almost) none of them has the power to decide on the "protocol." And it isn't based on a single business model. On the other hand, those who have decision-making power over the protocol know that any change would have a huge impact on an extremely diverse ecosystem. It's not easy to decide what to change because it's not easy to understand what impact such a change could have.
Bluesky's development, on the other hand, revolves around a single entity that holds decision-making power over the protocol, running the server and developing the app and APIs that dominate that ecosystem. And it's based on a business model that was already defined well before the protocol was created, with a protocol that was also developed with a business model in mind!The developers of the Fediverse were therefore Darwinianly selected by circumstances and today appear to be a bit more hacker-like, a bit more experimental, more adept at circumventing limitations, and (this isn't always a good thing...) more oriented toward community-driven financial support (and self-driven, because luckily for them, they all have IT jobs in a company). Moreover, not everyone is highly knowledgeable about the Activitypub protocol. And some of them are real "gourmets" of controversy...
Bluesky developers, on the other hand, seem decidedly more "secular" to me; they also have to deal with a more rigid protocol (definitely more protocol-based than the Activitypub protocol), strong centralized decision-making power, and objectively have more limited room for manoeuvre. Furthermore, these developers' livelihood model isn't clear to me (I mean, beyond their IT jobs at some company: do they all work for Bluesky PBC?).
I don't know... they seem like two worlds that aren't easily compatible, even from a social perspective...If this is true, then it shouldn't be surprising if the attitude of Bluesky stakeholders (the real ones, those sitting at the top) is positive only when a change could benefit their business model.
Conversely, the responses from Fediverse stakeholders (i.e., those dozen or so de facto influencers who, with a nod, can determine the public's favor or hostility toward an initiative) might seem more disappointing.I reiterate that even if I were right, this attitude wouldn't stop the new ideas germinating between the Fediverse and Bluesky developers.
It must be said, however, that since Bluesky was launched, I haven't seen any particular innovations. Recently, however, I've seen several new ideas emerge in the Fediverse, and these ideas, despite the rapidly declining user base, have led to very promising developments in the federated ecosystem over the past two years.All of this, however, would explain the communication difficulties between the two worlds, linked to the fact that the Bluesky leadership is too high-flying and the Fediverse stakeholders are too free-wheeling.
I hope I've explained myself better, despite the language barrier.
julian said in I also want to see #activitypub get some of the primitives that #atproto has such as decentralized identifiers (except for real), personal data stores, content addresses, etc.:
> This is an important observation we should take into consideration.My theory, however, would explain this reaction... :grin:
See you soon and have a good evening.
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@benpate @andypiper @alisynthesis @WeirdWriter
I'm also in the year-end rally at my day job, but I do have a two-week Christmas vacation coming up. I'll see if I can whip up something then!
-
Hey Andy, thanks for the mention!
I might add a map of physical locations, and a map-based search for businesses.
@juergen_hubert - would you be interested in making a drawing or two of what this might look like? I'd be happy to make a prototype.
I have my hands full with.. stuff.. at the moment, so I'm not able to do much design work. But once we know what we're doing, the actual coding might only take an afternoon or two.
