systemd lost the plot a long time ago.
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@distrowatch @bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I've had an excellent experience with MX, which recently reinstated their classic dual-init support: https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-25-dual-init-setup/
Now it's dual-init by default. My favorite Debian-based distro.
@jandi @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I'm not sure I understand the benefit of dual init. Doesn't that mean you get the bloat and downsides of systemd while also using sysvinit for some reason? You're still going to have all the stuff that people want to avoid with systemd while it's installed and doing its thing, just with added complexity.
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
glad Slackware stays out of this :) different approaches are fine, but I still prefer simple rc scripts and small tools over one big system doing everything.
#slackware
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@jandi @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I'm not sure I understand the benefit of dual init. Doesn't that mean you get the bloat and downsides of systemd while also using sysvinit for some reason? You're still going to have all the stuff that people want to avoid with systemd while it's installed and doing its thing, just with added complexity.
@nazokiyoubinbou @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft The distro supports both. As you can see in the linked post you can easily remove either, but you can also pick and choose at every boot, for any purpose (troubleshooting, dev, debug, etc). MX is a decidedly pro-user distro.
In the same vein, you can use flatpaks, snaps, appimages, debs, containers, whatever, if you so choose. It's quite flexible but not (IMO) overwhelming.
Still, of course, not everything for everyone, it might not be for you.
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@nixCraft Please, just stop using the term "Unix philosophy" as a fetish. There's a ton of great software that does not follow it, and I've seen enough failing init scripts in my life to convince me that endlessly stringing tools together with pipes is not a robust way of writing software.
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft but now gnome and kde enforce systemd usage..
We're fucked. -
@nixCraft it's not age verification it's just a birth date in the filesystem YOU define, no verification whatsoever. And the value is available on dbus. Up the the app developer to do something with it. Yes systemd has flaws, plural, its design is questionable. But right now it's just an excuse to bash it one more time. And so what, we go back to thousand lignes bash scripts ordered with numbers which can faim at any moment?
Sorry, but there is no logical reason for systemd to need details that specific and precise for any purpose other than age verification.
If it were for birthday lookups for 'well wishers', it would be held in the calendar app. If it were for parental control, it would be under that heading, and only as a toggle of yes/no, on access to XYZ.
To think that it has a place in sustemd at all leads to a question of why any PPI data is necessary in ANY subsystem. It's not.
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Sorry, but there is no logical reason for systemd to need details that specific and precise for any purpose other than age verification.
If it were for birthday lookups for 'well wishers', it would be held in the calendar app. If it were for parental control, it would be under that heading, and only as a toggle of yes/no, on access to XYZ.
To think that it has a place in sustemd at all leads to a question of why any PPI data is necessary in ANY subsystem. It's not.
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@nixCraft it's not age verification it's just a birth date in the filesystem YOU define, no verification whatsoever. And the value is available on dbus. Up the the app developer to do something with it. Yes systemd has flaws, plural, its design is questionable. But right now it's just an excuse to bash it one more time. And so what, we go back to thousand lignes bash scripts ordered with numbers which can faim at any moment?
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I appreciate that everyone, including all of us in this thread are actively looking and thinking about where things stand at this moment.
The facts are clear enough that it was preemptive and was most certainly _not_ a requirement forced by lawsuites or legal actions.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, unjust and unfit laws are overturned often, but I'll add that capitulation is not a fitting way to deal with privacy principals and personal freedoms.
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@nixCraft but now gnome and kde enforce systemd usage..
We're fucked. -
@nixCraft Please, just stop using the term "Unix philosophy" as a fetish. There's a ton of great software that does not follow it, and I've seen enough failing init scripts in my life to convince me that endlessly stringing tools together with pipes is not a robust way of writing software.
@hokid it's not like systemd is one big blob.
That's how people argue. -
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@nixCraft it's not age verification it's just a birth date in the filesystem YOU define, no verification whatsoever. And the value is available on dbus. Up the the app developer to do something with it. Yes systemd has flaws, plural, its design is questionable. But right now it's just an excuse to bash it one more time. And so what, we go back to thousand lignes bash scripts ordered with numbers which can faim at any moment?
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