@silverpill'n> "But ActivityPub is the evolution of Atom/RSS, with JSON instead of XML..."'nNot exactly.
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> "fedi is ruled more by consensus and alignment than by spec."
Which is as it should be. Trying to tie everything down to a 'single protocol to rule them all' is both an impossible goal and a barrier to creativity.
But I am concerned that (a) Mastodon uses ActivityPub in a way not intended by the protocol designers and (b) is becoming the standard you have to follow – when the protocol itself isn't being modified to be more 'Mastodon friendly'; for lack of a better term.
@jackwilliambell @silverpill not entirely as it should be imo -- the problem is equivocation. people using the same terms but with different meanings. the expectation is that you agree ahead-of-time; the reality is that no one actually checks this. it's not about "one protocol to rule them all" but the protocol is undefined in many places and undefined behavior is bad. or people use their own interpretations not exactly matching the official definitions, because to them it's "close enough".
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill i want to believe that good docs and clean design reign supreme, but the reality is that worse is often better. there are so many technologies that are widely used because their value is almost entirely in what consumes them. atom vs rss is the clearest example of this -- atom is far superior, but rss will live on because of iTunes-style podcast indexers. who consumes jsonfeed? not as many as atom or rss. but at least you can publish multiple formats.
@jackwilliambell @silverpill or as the indieweb people will argue, you should just embed this information in the html which you are likely already publishing, because sidecar formats are bad (single source of truth).
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill not entirely as it should be imo -- the problem is equivocation. people using the same terms but with different meanings. the expectation is that you agree ahead-of-time; the reality is that no one actually checks this. it's not about "one protocol to rule them all" but the protocol is undefined in many places and undefined behavior is bad. or people use their own interpretations not exactly matching the official definitions, because to them it's "close enough".
@jackwilliambell @silverpill btw for "real activitypub" i actually experimented with this for my own website, a page /activity which represents an outbox. the idea is you'd be able to POST activities to that outbox exactly as described by activitypub. but the missing piece is authentication/authorization. i suppose i could do that with some http middleware or something, but there is no standard for this in activitypub -- just a vague mention that you might want to use oauth.
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill btw for "real activitypub" i actually experimented with this for my own website, a page /activity which represents an outbox. the idea is you'd be able to POST activities to that outbox exactly as described by activitypub. but the missing piece is authentication/authorization. i suppose i could do that with some http middleware or something, but there is no standard for this in activitypub -- just a vague mention that you might want to use oauth.
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill or as the indieweb people will argue, you should just embed this information in the html which you are likely already publishing, because sidecar formats are bad (single source of truth).
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill not entirely as it should be imo -- the problem is equivocation. people using the same terms but with different meanings. the expectation is that you agree ahead-of-time; the reality is that no one actually checks this. it's not about "one protocol to rule them all" but the protocol is undefined in many places and undefined behavior is bad. or people use their own interpretations not exactly matching the official definitions, because to them it's "close enough".
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill i want to believe that good docs and clean design reign supreme, but the reality is that worse is often better. there are so many technologies that are widely used because their value is almost entirely in what consumes them. atom vs rss is the clearest example of this -- atom is far superior, but rss will live on because of iTunes-style podcast indexers. who consumes jsonfeed? not as many as atom or rss. but at least you can publish multiple formats.
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> "fedi is ruled more by consensus and alignment than by spec."
Which is as it should be. Trying to tie everything down to a 'single protocol to rule them all' is both an impossible goal and a barrier to creativity.
But I am concerned that (a) Mastodon uses ActivityPub in a way not intended by the protocol designers and (b) is becoming the standard you have to follow – when the protocol itself isn't being modified to be more 'Mastodon friendly'; for lack of a better term.
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill idk if activitypub has "failed", but if you want to talk to anyone, you are better suited going to their docs instead of the actual spec. or their codebase.
in practice, the biggest flavours are mastodon and lemmy. there's some overlap, and some other flavours that are more niche (funkwhale). fedi is ruled more by consensus and alignment than by spec.
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I'd argue what drives adoption is ease of use first; even fitness to a use case comes second to good docs, a clean design, and a comprehensible reference implementation.
JSONfeed seems to be 'Atom in JSON'. Which works for me and the microblogging use cases I am envisioning.
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@jackwilliambell @silverpill i think the "hard to grok" is often misattributed to json-ld and rdf, but those are entirely optional, so that's not the real problem. the real problem is the poor data modeling for anything that isn't an activity. you already identified things like Hashtag not making sense; the lack of sense-making extends to other types like Mention and Link. there's other ambiguities like Collection, which can be both paged and unpaged at the same time. it can be quite messy!
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Cous cous + @varia + @fediforum'n= FediCousCous ❤️'nMmmmh 😋'n#FediForum #FediCousCous'n(#ActivityPub-flavoured food is tastyyy!
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Loops makes federation management easy.'nYou can mass-import servers to block, enforce authorized access and more 💪'nWe have more safety features coming!'n#loops #loopsDev #tikTok #activityPub #safety
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