Is the Risorgimento an important part of Canadian history?
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@evan I'm not entirely sure I understand your point. There are plenty of large English and French holidays that aren't celebrated here. Take Guy Fawkes day, for instance. While we have toned down the religious aspect of European holidays (Easter is often a two week holiday there), those are still part of our main holidays. I think we should dump government celebrations of all religious days. As for food, well I'd struggle to think of what a "Canadian" restaurant might serve, because at home we all eat a variety of foods that originate from all over the world. And we mix it up, but no one would ever call it fusion, it's just homemade food. Ottawa calls itself the Shawarma Capital of Canada, but it wasn't invented in Canada so calling it Canadian food feels like appropriation. Poutine and Nanaimo bars were invented here, so they get the Canadian designation. I guess we can call them Canadian shawarmas š¤·š¼āāļø
@mariellequinton the point is simple: Canada is the people who are here, Canadian history is our collective and individual stories, and Canadian culture is the things we say and make and do.
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@being @evan there is something here about poutine being invented in Canada, something like how hamburgers and hot dogs were effectively German but were transformed in USA (mostly by adding bread lol) into something uniquely Usonian. I donāt know anything about Canadian arepas, but surely thereās unique fillings or something that are uniquely Canadian?
@being @evan I do support what youāre saying about āthe countryās food is the food made in the countryā overall, btw, just wondering what would make it take that form in popular imagination. Italian immigrants made many unique foods down here that Iām proud to call our own. (I love muffuletta so much, and hey shout out to the Cajuns for popularizing it, thatās an honorary Canadian dish too tbh)
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@being @evan there is something here about poutine being invented in Canada, something like how hamburgers and hot dogs were effectively German but were transformed in USA (mostly by adding bread lol) into something uniquely Usonian. I donāt know anything about Canadian arepas, but surely thereās unique fillings or something that are uniquely Canadian?
@modulusshift @being do they have to be uniquely Canadian to be Canadian? Or is Canadian food just the food that Canadians eat, unique or not?
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@modulusshift @being do they have to be uniquely Canadian to be Canadian? Or is Canadian food just the food that Canadians eat, unique or not?
@evan @modulusshift @being isn't this the difference between a "melting pot" society and a "mosaic" society?
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@mariellequinton the point is simple: Canada is the people who are here, Canadian history is our collective and individual stories, and Canadian culture is the things we say and make and do.
@evan Hmm. But that doesn't make every event in world history important to Canadian history. Some things are less important. Some Australian MP that resigned 50 years ago is part of Canadian history in your sense, but I wouldn't label it as important. It's ok to be a footnote.
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So, I am trying to hold an idea of Canada in my mind where the story of Italian Canadians (and West Indians and Maghrebi and Ukrainian and, and, and) is as foundational and collectively held as the story of the Great Peace and the Acadian expulsion or the national railroad. If there is a "we" here, as a Canadian, it's my story too. It feels strange and uncomfortable, which is why I started this poll. And, why, I think, it has so few responses. Anyway, I am Yes, but it's hard.
@evan I recently created a "coat of arms" for my old high school / for reasons unrelated to this thread / the four circles are meant to represent plates around a dinner table / one for the first nations, one for the settlers (colonizers), one for everyone who has arrived since "first contact" and one for all the people who have simply been born in to it / it felt more appropriate than the standard fare english-french catholic-protestant symbolism of the city's current flag / or bagels, obviously
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I should probably point out that many people here in Canada fucking *hate* the very idea of this kind of equitable multiculturalism. The idea that arepas and poutine are both fully and equally Canadian sounds like hell to them. This is not unusual anywhere, I don't think.
@evan Perhaps it would be useful to move this to specifics. For instance: Is QuƩbec justified in expecting immigrants to become francophone and implementing policies to do so?
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@evan Perhaps it would be useful to move this to specifics. For instance: Is QuƩbec justified in expecting immigrants to become francophone and implementing policies to do so?
@mpjgregoire such a good question! I think the central pillar of civic nationalism in Quebec is the French language -- more even than shared values or institutions. To the extent that it goes past what could be simple ethnic nationalism, I think that's a really good step forward.
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@evan @modulusshift @being isn't this the difference between a "melting pot" society and a "mosaic" society?
@lambic @modulusshift @being probably one difference! Although even in Canada's "patchwork quilt" model, there are some patches that are essential, and others that are optional add-ons. Maybe we need to say, this is the quilt we have, it's our quilt, and every piece is essential to make it what it is.
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I should probably point out that many people here in Canada fucking *hate* the very idea of this kind of equitable multiculturalism. The idea that arepas and poutine are both fully and equally Canadian sounds like hell to them. This is not unusual anywhere, I don't think.
@evan
How do things like cultural appropriation jive with this? I know you've posted in the past about the appropriateness of cooking recipes from another culture, which I found strange because the power imbalance was the opposite than I would have expected.It seems more useful to talk about raw power imbalances. Yes, acknowledge there are patterns in who is powerful and who lacks agency, but focusing on the imbalance and the abuses, which go from powerful to powerless.
#notall
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@matt he's getting up there, but I'd guess we won't have him much longer. He's been one of my favorites since high school, and I think he's done an impressive job staying relevant across decades.
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