Old English had two words for “knife”: ‘cnīf’ (the ancestor of ‘knife’) and ‘meteseax’.

[yvanspijk@toot.community]

@MichaelPorter I hope that the fact that Latin 'sexus', which gave us 'sex', is very distantly related to this word family as well.

[fiee@literatur.social]

@yvanspijk
I never heard Kneif or Kneip – probably too outdated?
Are these related to “kneifen“ (to pinch), maybe because the pocket knife is foldable?
And “Kneipe” (pub)?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneipe says Kneipe (Kneipschenke) stems from kneifen, because it was cramped.

[yvanspijk@toot.community]

@fiee That's right!

'Kneif' and 'Kneip' are still listed in Duden, but they're indeed outdated.

[pjakobs@mastodon.green]

@fiee @yvanspijk in the moselle franconian dialects, a small potato knife is a "Kneipchen" and of course, there is the "Kneifzange"

[fiee@literatur.social]

@yvanspijk Ok, Wahrig says Kneif/Kneip is still used by craftspeople like leatherworkers or gardeners. I seem to remember hearing it for a gardening knife. (Perhaps it was @pjakobs ’s Kneipchen.)

[donray@mastodon.online]

@Mab_813 @yvanspijk

I grew up in a town that received a lot of German immigrants in the 1800s. “Messerschmitt” was a common surname. Apparently’ “Knifemaker” (?)

[donray@mastodon.online]

@yvanspijk

That phrase could regain popularity: “Dude, could ya hand me that meat sword?”

[turi@mas.to]

@donray @Mab_813 @yvanspijk Yes, knifemaker or literally knife smith.

[ea5iyl@mastodon.radio]

@yvanspijk And probably Catalan "ganivet".

[mab_813@fedi.at]

@donray @yvanspijk

Oh was confused at first but you are right, "Schmied" is the modern German equivalent for "smith" so I guess "schmitt" means the same.

[rainyday@fe.disroot.org]

@yvanspijk @fiee
They are used in local dialect words for "that one sharp kitchen knife". It has a different word in many dialects, but often a version of "kneip" is included.

Where I come from, it's "kniepchen"

This article is german, but has a map: https://www.zeit.de/zeit-magazin/2015/31/deutschlandkarte-kuechenmesser-dialekt

[fiee@literatur.social]

@rainyday
Interesting. I’d guess some of these words stem from a manufacturer, e.g. “Schiller”, ”Abraham” and several “Teufel” derivates.

@yvanspijk

[yvanspijk@toot.community]

@rainyday @fiee Thank you very much!

[yvanspijk@toot.community]

@Mab_813 @donray Yes, 'Schmitt' was the old nominative and accusative case; the form 'Schmied' was taken from the plural 'Schmiede' and the other cases ('Schmiedes' etc.).

[rainyday@fe.disroot.org]

@fiee @yvanspijk
Teufel is devil. Because it is "the one sharp as hell kitchen knife", areas around franconia call it the cutting devil 😅

Abraham is a religious connotation, because if you cut yourself with it, you'll see him soon-ish.

Schiller I'm not sure, that is NL-inspired.

This kind of knife is much older than brand manufacturers, the names mostly come from faerie and other tall tales. Or describe what it does, in old and older words.

[fiee@literatur.social]

@rainyday
Possible. But I’d guess(!) at least some of the words aren’t older than houseware peddlers who might have sold knifes marked by their manufacturers.
E.g. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinel from 1890.

Hier gibt’s Teufels Messer aus einem Familienbetrieb aus Franken, auch wenn die nicht ganz so alt sind:
https://www.kurier.de/inhalt.hollfeld-teuflisch-scharf-industriemesser-spezialist-imabt-erfindet-innovatives-messer.067eba34-1f76-44c9-b0c3-61a5d551194d.html

@yvanspijk

[karelbrits@mastodon.social]

@yvanspijk in Pajottegem (provincie Vlaams-Brabant in België) is er een drukkerij die 'De Knijf' heet. Ik weet niet of het woord daar in het lokaal dialect gebruikt wordt, maar het zou me niet verwonderen.

[rainyday@fe.disroot.org]

@fiee @yvanspijk

Yeah, some are boring, like Hamburg's "Kartoffelschälmesser", or Stuttgart's "Krabbenschächter" (😳 ?!)
"Groschenmesserschen" is just a knife for 10 ct.

Around the rhineland, "pitter" or "petter" is a boys' name, but can also mean "thingy". So they call it the kitchen thingy 😅

Some are weird, like "Lütt' Messer". Lütten are little girls. 😳

I have to admit that I only met Opinel after learning English, they weren't very well represented at least in NRW. Since Germany was always so good friends with France 🙈 , I don't think they have much of a market here. Probably more Swiss knives.

But I'm guessing too. My sources are growing up in NRW, but I haven't done a study 😇

[fiee@literatur.social]

@rainyday

Lütt just means small in lower German. (e.g. Lütt Matten der Has)

Opinels are/were very common with scouts and other outdoorers.
It’s just an example of “brand” knifes that were peddled before 1900.

@yvanspijk

[alexskunz@mas.to]

@yvanspijk wow this is fantastic, my mother used to say “Kneipsche” (Hessian dialect) for a small pairing knife and I never knew why and where that came from.

Now that I see it, the relation to knife is painfully obvious of course… 😅