@glyph Did you quote post something?
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@isaackuo @nyrath @glyph
I can't find it anymore but the local science museum used to have a rudimentary psychologist program running on a computer - in the eighties!The logic behind it was on par with adventure games of the era, including the eponymous _Adventure_.
It would answer anything you typed with more questions like "what makes you say that?" etc.
The exhibit's purpose was to show that even simple repetitive responses could offer the illusion of meaningful conversation.
Yes, back in the 1960s the ELIZA effect was a rude surprise.
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@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph If it’s at the limits of complexity as you claimed earlier, by definition, it is not maintainable. These are tradeoffs.
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@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph You… do know that good engineering expresses the system with as few lines of code as necessary?
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@glyph if you keep writing shit like this I'm gonna keep pointing to it and saying, "Glyph says what I mean to but far more eloquently"
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@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph If it’s at the limits of complexity as you claimed earlier, by definition, it is not maintainable. These are tradeoffs.
@donaldball @dragonfi @glyph take the example of the game which is on GitHub. Critique it on the actual source. How would you improve it as a human? What in it do you think the AI did a bad job at? Make it specific.
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Yes, back in the 1960s the ELIZA effect was a rude surprise.
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@donaldball @dragonfi @glyph take the example of the game which is on GitHub. Critique it on the actual source. How would you improve it as a human? What in it do you think the AI did a bad job at? Make it specific.
@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph Poking around, I’d say it’s a competent sophomore game. Too much game logic mixed in with engine logic for my taste, but that can be a fine choice for write-only apps like simple games.
At the limit of complexity? Hardly. That claim is puffery. There’s nothing evidently innovative that I saw, just a competent assembly of others’ ideas.
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It did help with my creativity block. But at the time I didn't know it was stealing others works, I thought a company had paid people to create the images I was using to write short fiction from. I was corrected, then thought it was like collage. Then people pointed out that the difference between fair use in a collage and theft in a collage is a matter of percentages. And LLM is way beyond fair use percentages.
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It really reminds me of tarot card readers. It's not about the cards, it's about how the person reading the cards interacts with the other person. They could be actually helpful. Or performing a grift. The latter is far more common.
Just like snake oil was useful, but there were so many traveling con men selling counterfeit fake stuff that the bad experiences were applied to the real thing too.
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Something I posted the other day which relates to this:
The Friends of Eliza can help you overcome your AI/LLM prompt-query compulsion syndrome.
Endorphins are the hardest to resist. Work together and we can beat this.
The first meeting is in the Chinese Room at 11:00am.
Coffee and Cake will be available 🙂☕️🧁Lovely choice of location there...
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@bjorndown @_L1vY_ @glyph @xgranade I go to work by bus, and I've made a habit of always carrying a book with me, so I can read on my commute. *Very* highly recommended.
(This morning it felt like me and the woman sitting next to me were a kind of cozy time travellers. I was reading my book and she was doing some knitting; almost everyone else were doomscrolling on their phones.)
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@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph Poking around, I’d say it’s a competent sophomore game. Too much game logic mixed in with engine logic for my taste, but that can be a fine choice for write-only apps like simple games.
At the limit of complexity? Hardly. That claim is puffery. There’s nothing evidently innovative that I saw, just a competent assembly of others’ ideas.
@donaldball @dragonfi @glyph not sure where you have the “limit of complexity” from or what you mean by that. It’s a codebase that’s very adequate for what I need.
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@donaldball @dragonfi @glyph not sure where you have the “limit of complexity” from or what you mean by that. It’s a codebase that’s very adequate for what I need.
@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph Your own words: https://hachyderm.io/@mitsuhiko/115839413349363341
I’ll leave you the last word, I’ve said my piece.
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@mitsuhiko @dragonfi @glyph Your own words: https://hachyderm.io/@mitsuhiko/115839413349363341
I’ll leave you the last word, I’ve said my piece.
@donaldball @dragonfi @glyph I said that this is beyond what I would have been able to push out myself over Christmas.
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@datarama @xgranade I have other anxiety issues (OCD does not really resonate broadly, but anxiety+ADHD can produce a similar effect) and I sometimes feel waves of INTENSE rage when I open up my Apple TV and it's playing a loud trailer for a show I don't really want to get into, or launch Steam and find that it's forgotten the preference to open to the Library and not Store tab. We need strict regulation for ALL of these attractive "algorithmic" nuisances
@glyph @datarama @xgranade Aside: Steam Big Picture mode drives me into an absolute rage. I never ever EVER want my laptop UI completely hijacked and for some weird reason Valve won't let people disable it from accidentally starting. It's not like Valve is following the standard enshittification playbook of forcing it to be enabled (see AI features in Firefox, Windows, etc.) but there's no way to just simply disable it from being inadvertently activated. It's maddenly difficult to turn off if you've never used it before (like exiting vi) and - aside from git or pre-commit or Word mulching a report at 3pm on the Friday it needs to go out - Steam Big Picture mode is one of the few immediate rage-inducing things that can happen with any of my computers. It's completely gratuitous and it's infuriating that I can't ever prevent it from accidentally running.
My reaction is a bit extreme but it is completely reasonable to not want certain software to ever run on a device you own, period.
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@gloriouscow I am just facing AI summaries everywhere and it can't even be turned off. It is really like plastic pollution.
Even from these summaries it is easy to spot the pattern: for example, I sometimes do typo in search prompt and the AI summary works with this typo, generating nonse (while even normal search results try to guess "Did you mean ...?")
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Needless to say, if somebody time traveled back to the 1950s and tried to explain this to the people back then, they would have thought you were crazy...
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@glyph I have a friend who spent the last year+ battling a kratom addiction. I get the analogy, and why you chose it, but using an addiction framing to talk about LLM usage is an analogy that risks really trivializing addiction (Is there a biological, genetic component to LLM usage? Is LLM usage linked to underlying psychological disorders like anxiety and depression?). I understand how you got here, and don’t think you’re wrong exactly, but I do wish you hadn’t made this argument.
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@smacintyre@mastodon.social @glyph
You forgot to start with "Well, actually..."
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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Thanks to everyone who responds or replies to my polls. They're one of my favourite parts of being on the Fediverse.
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@zwol at this point I'd forego semantic, and just take easy and nice to look at. If I were writing a book today, I'd author it in Markdown, and then convert it to...whatever...for editing, or whatever at the very end. Before publishing, I ended up converting to an OpenOffice doc with the publishers template for editing, anyway (but I didn't originally write it to be published, it just worked out that way, so the OpenOffice step wasn't originally in the plans).
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@ann3nova this is such a specific thing to obsess over, I love it. I drew my own pointers back then, and the one I used most looked pretty much like this. Same shape, but different colors.
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@swelljoe I completely agree that it becomes tiring looking at all the tags. Not sure I've ever seen a markup language that was both semantic and pleasant to read in source form, though.
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Le matematiche (libro)
@libri - La matematica è la stessa, ma la scuola russa la vede in modo diverso
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@zwol I wrote a book in Docbook (SGML first, and then converted to XML later) about 25ish years ago, with a custom vim configuration. It wasn't pleasant. Yes, the tools were bad, but also it's just really sort of tiring looking at all the tags and the processing toolchain was dire.
I was using a LaTeX-based toolchain for the PDF generation, I don't remember details, but Sebastian Rahtz was super helpful when I ran into mysterious issues.
I wouldn't do it again. Different time, different me.
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@jannem Yeah, like, considered as a thing-in-itself apart from the tools, the major complaint I have about DocBook is that the documentation of _how to write a book using DocBook_ is inadequate.
Many people have very similar complaints about LaTeX.
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@Esoteria you might be a little too young for this classic scene from "WKRP in Cincinnati".
