How do I deactivate the new theme on #Godot 4.6?
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@zuru Note that it’s the UI scale, not text specific scale.
I don’t think they’ll remove it (so quickly at least), but I expect it to degrade with time as less validation of new changes is done with it in mind.
@yurisizov @zuru Yeah, I really liked the classic theme - I thought it gave Godot a very unique (and kind of friendly) look next to all other engines/editors - but I've also had too many of my own complaints (and seen tons from others over the years) over too much wasted space piling up (if you've ever opened Resources in the Inspector 5 levels deep you know what I mean).
As much as change feels uncomfortable, especially if it feels aesthetic for no reason, I got used to the new theme very quickly and *have* decided it does a better job of conserving space and improving readability. That being said: not everyone will agree, and that's fine!
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@yurisizov @zuru Yeah, I really liked the classic theme - I thought it gave Godot a very unique (and kind of friendly) look next to all other engines/editors - but I've also had too many of my own complaints (and seen tons from others over the years) over too much wasted space piling up (if you've ever opened Resources in the Inspector 5 levels deep you know what I mean).
As much as change feels uncomfortable, especially if it feels aesthetic for no reason, I got used to the new theme very quickly and *have* decided it does a better job of conserving space and improving readability. That being said: not everyone will agree, and that's fine!
@bryce @zuru Well, the example you give with resources is not related to the theme at all. It's a layout issue, and a reskin makes no difference there.
And for me, readability and usage of space got way worse. Scene dock doesn't have contrast anymore, trees in general just float in space with no visible anchors. Trees are also unnecessarily tight, making it harder to read and click them. At the same time, scene tabs have a lot of extra space that they don't need. Buttons too. It's so weird.
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@bryce @zuru Well, the example you give with resources is not related to the theme at all. It's a layout issue, and a reskin makes no difference there.
And for me, readability and usage of space got way worse. Scene dock doesn't have contrast anymore, trees in general just float in space with no visible anchors. Trees are also unnecessarily tight, making it harder to read and click them. At the same time, scene tabs have a lot of extra space that they don't need. Buttons too. It's so weird.
@yurisizov @zuru Huh, I thought a lot of the space issues I was having were directly related to the theme... Maybe I should flip back and forth to see what the theme *actually* changes so I'm better aware 😄
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@yurisizov @zuru Huh, I thought a lot of the space issues I was having were directly related to the theme... Maybe I should flip back and forth to see what the theme *actually* changes so I'm better aware 😄
@bryce @zuru Unless I am mistaken, you are talking about changes from this PR and other such issues:
https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/103257
This is an improvement that is a part of the layout and it applies to any theme you can use. Themes define colors, fonts, icons, and styleboxes, but not arrangement of elements.
That's kind of my biggest frustration: this change is tooted very hard, but it's a superficial change. UX could've been improved without it at all.
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@bryce @zuru Unless I am mistaken, you are talking about changes from this PR and other such issues:
https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/103257
This is an improvement that is a part of the layout and it applies to any theme you can use. Themes define colors, fonts, icons, and styleboxes, but not arrangement of elements.
That's kind of my biggest frustration: this change is tooted very hard, but it's a superficial change. UX could've been improved without it at all.
@yurisizov Gotcha, thanks for the clarification! I feel like defaults carry a lot of weight - I recall a panel about some AAA game (maybe Assassin's Creed?) where they experimented with subtitles being off vs on by default across titles and noticed that only ~20% of players would turn them on if they were off by default, but ~80% would leave them on if they were on by default. Many people might not even know there *are* multiple themes and so only the default will have eyes on it.
I think a good first step might be a 2-3 question "first time launch" form. "What theme do you want" and "do you prefer tabs or spaces and how wide is your indentation?" would both be good options I feel most people would like to specify.
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@yurisizov Gotcha, thanks for the clarification! I feel like defaults carry a lot of weight - I recall a panel about some AAA game (maybe Assassin's Creed?) where they experimented with subtitles being off vs on by default across titles and noticed that only ~20% of players would turn them on if they were off by default, but ~80% would leave them on if they were on by default. Many people might not even know there *are* multiple themes and so only the default will have eyes on it.
I think a good first step might be a 2-3 question "first time launch" form. "What theme do you want" and "do you prefer tabs or spaces and how wide is your indentation?" would both be good options I feel most people would like to specify.
@bryce That's right, if something is poorly discoverable, then it's an issue with the onboarding experience.
Frankly, there hasn't been any popular custom theme until this one was created by passivestar. So it's hard to know if people find them easily or not, since there hasn't been much to find before.
They definitely found passivestar's fine enough.
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@bryce That's right, if something is poorly discoverable, then it's an issue with the onboarding experience.
Frankly, there hasn't been any popular custom theme until this one was created by passivestar. So it's hard to know if people find them easily or not, since there hasn't been much to find before.
They definitely found passivestar's fine enough.
@bryce But there are also other things to consider: signaling to the community and maintenance cost.
IMO, adopting the only popular custom theme like that discourages growth of custom themes. Same for any other community-driven expansion of engine defaults. You need to show that not being adopted is viable, that community work can have value without being accepted as "official".
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@bryce That's right, if something is poorly discoverable, then it's an issue with the onboarding experience.
Frankly, there hasn't been any popular custom theme until this one was created by passivestar. So it's hard to know if people find them easily or not, since there hasn't been much to find before.
They definitely found passivestar's fine enough.
@yurisizov I have never installed a custom theme, myself, but I also don't follow many "influencers" online, so it's totally possible one guy on TikTok made a video that went viral about "the default Godot theme is UGLY and THIS is way better." It happens with coding patterns often enough (for better or worse).
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@bryce But there are also other things to consider: signaling to the community and maintenance cost.
IMO, adopting the only popular custom theme like that discourages growth of custom themes. Same for any other community-driven expansion of engine defaults. You need to show that not being adopted is viable, that community work can have value without being accepted as "official".
@bryce And then, as I mention above, I think the old theme will degrade with time. You now need to test editor changes in 2 themes (and, ideally, in both dark and light modes), and general UI changes in 3 themes.
And normally, we'd rarely ever test light mode with PRs, because that's not what most people use, including devs. That's just a lot more work that the team will not do.
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@yurisizov I have never installed a custom theme, myself, but I also don't follow many "influencers" online, so it's totally possible one guy on TikTok made a video that went viral about "the default Godot theme is UGLY and THIS is way better." It happens with coding patterns often enough (for better or worse).
@bryce Well, passivestar is a sort of influencer and notable person all by himself :) He's not on Masto, though.
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@bryce And then, as I mention above, I think the old theme will degrade with time. You now need to test editor changes in 2 themes (and, ideally, in both dark and light modes), and general UI changes in 3 themes.
And normally, we'd rarely ever test light mode with PRs, because that's not what most people use, including devs. That's just a lot more work that the team will not do.
@yurisizov That's why I see discoverability as the main problem here. If users are presented with 2 options (with neither selected as the default to skew results) then maybe we can get *actual* numbers on which one is preferred.
If neither is preferred (really close to a 50/50 split) then at least each theme has enough users so they can quickly notice unmaintained elements rather than letting them pile up.
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@bryce Well, passivestar is a sort of influencer and notable person all by himself :) He's not on Masto, though.
@yurisizov Ah, that probably explains it; I'm kind of only on Mastodon now, as it comes to social media...
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@yurisizov That's why I see discoverability as the main problem here. If users are presented with 2 options (with neither selected as the default to skew results) then maybe we can get *actual* numbers on which one is preferred.
If neither is preferred (really close to a 50/50 split) then at least each theme has enough users so they can quickly notice unmaintained elements rather than letting them pile up.
@bryce At this point, there is probably little reason to go deep into data. That's something that could've been done earlier to validate the assumption that the change is desirable.
Now, it's not going to be turned back, so eh. Also, Godot doesn't collect analytics 🙃
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@Kathee_HDS @iakobsdesamos Ara em faltaria trobar si es poden configurar els padding de les coses, que no sé ni si és pot, però sembla que era necessari treure el padding d'absolutament tot i ficar-lo en llocs on no feia falta, ningú sabrà mai per què.
Ja he perdut quasi una hora amb la tonteria, és depriment, però ja em callo, perque estic super opinionated amb aquest canvi i em sap també greu per qui hagi ficat l'esforç en fer-lo. Vull pensar que hi ha una raó lògica darrere d'ell.
@zuru @Kathee_HDS NO HI HA CAP PUTA RAÓ, ÉS UN CANVI DE MERDA I NO HE TORNAT A TOCAR GODOT DES DE LA 4.6 PER CULPA D'AIXÒ 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
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