Should expatriate citizens of your country have the right to vote?
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@evan@cosocial.ca are you guys actually implying there are scenarios in which a citizen of a country shouldn’t be allowed to vote for their country?
Like, for real? 
wtf is citizenship for then? -
@evan Yes, but not on local elections if you've been away for a long time. Another but: That there's some balance between the voting rights of expatriate citizens and people living in my country without citizenship (many of whom currently can't vote, but have lived here longer than some expatriate citizens and have a higher stake in what happens to the country).
@malte I like that the EU requires local elections to allow EU citizen local residents to vote, and I like that Sweden goes further and allows all local residents of age to vote in local elections.
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@evan
If you choose to not live in a country then why should you get the privilege of a vote in that country? -
@evan Who on Earth doesn't vote "Yes" ?
People who don't understand what citizenship is, I presume. -
@evan @stinerman
Yes. It should be done as in France: there are at present eleven deputies who represent French citizens abroad.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_legislative_constituencies_for_citizens_abroad
@mpjgregoire @evan @stinerman It's a good idea in theory, but in practice it's a bit silly. My representative represents Russia, most of Asia and Oceania. Three regions that have little in common. Our previous representative was a Putin-controlled asshole. A current one is a business woman from HK or Singapore, I even forget. Neither is "representative" of anything.
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@evan I would say no.
My rationale: Who am I as a resident and citizen of another country to decide what the residents of my other citizenship country wish/want. I don’t pay taxes there, I don’t participate in their active life, etc. For all intents and purposes, they are foreigners
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@evan@cosocial.ca are you guys actually implying there are scenarios in which a citizen of a country shouldn’t be allowed to vote for their country?
Like, for real?
wtf is citizenship for then? -
@evan
If you choose to not live in a country then why should you get the privilege of a vote in that country? -
@evan From some answers, I see a lot of people have the good old landowner (male and white too?) mentality when it comes to voting rights. You would expect people on the Fediverse to understand what democracy and citizenship are a little better.
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@evan Who on Earth doesn't vote "Yes" ?
People who don't understand what citizenship is, I presume.@DavidBHimself @evan I simply don't like what expats tend to vote for.
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If they've established themselves elsewhere—job, home—no.
Conversely, unlike some countries, emigrants shouldn't have to pay taxes on income not earned in their former country.
They regain the right on return.
And for the same reason, immigrants¹ who have established themselves somewhere—job, home,… —should be allowed to vote after at most 5 years.
Disclosure: I emigrated from England and never voted there since.
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1. Funny how it's mostly white people who are called "expats", people of colour are "immigrants" -
@DavidBHimself That is not my point 🤦♂️
What I’m saying… who am I to impose my political preferences as a citizen of country A to people in country B that I don’t live with and don’t know their current needs‽
Let’s say… the hypothetical where I live, we decide to that mastering multiple languages (A and B) is a requirement to get your secondary education diploma. But in country B, such a suggestion would be seen as an attack against said country.
It’s just hard to find non-tax examples
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If they've established themselves elsewhere—job, home—no.
Conversely, unlike some countries, emigrants shouldn't have to pay taxes on income not earned in their former country.
They regain the right on return.
And for the same reason, immigrants¹ who have established themselves somewhere—job, home,… —should be allowed to vote after at most 5 years.
Disclosure: I emigrated from England and never voted there since.
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1. Funny how it's mostly white people who are called "expats", people of colour are "immigrants"@EricLawton "emigrants" is also a good term.
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@EricLawton "emigrants" is also a good term.
@EricLawton I think when you are talking from the perspective of the country they left, "immigrant" (in + migrant) is inaccurate.
Other terms we use: overseas citizens, citizens abroad.
I'm not actually across a sea from my birth country, unless you count the St. Lawrence Seaway, so I don't use that term often.
Abroad sounds like it could mean temporarily away, like on a long vacation .
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@DavidBHimself That is not my point 🤦♂️
What I’m saying… who am I to impose my political preferences as a citizen of country A to people in country B that I don’t live with and don’t know their current needs‽
Let’s say… the hypothetical where I live, we decide to that mastering multiple languages (A and B) is a requirement to get your secondary education diploma. But in country B, such a suggestion would be seen as an attack against said country.
It’s just hard to find non-tax examples
@EdwinG
And yet, you did mention taxes. Something that would never cross my mind when talking about voting.Also, you've never lived in another country, have you?
Who are you to impose your political preference? You are a citizen of your own country, just like every other citizen of your own country "impose" their political preference when it's election time.
(and sorry, I don't understand your countries A and B example, it's not about country A and B, it's about country A only)
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@DavidBHimself @evan I simply don't like what expats tend to vote for.
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@EdwinG
And yet, you did mention taxes. Something that would never cross my mind when talking about voting.Also, you've never lived in another country, have you?
Who are you to impose your political preference? You are a citizen of your own country, just like every other citizen of your own country "impose" their political preference when it's election time.
(and sorry, I don't understand your countries A and B example, it's not about country A and B, it's about country A only)
@DavidBHimself I have lived in another country. I even held a triple citizenship for a certain time. I didn’t vote in elections for regions I was not residing in.
The question is literally: Should people that lived in your country (A) but moved away to another country (B) be still allowed to vote in your country (A)?
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As a Swede living abroad, I also appreciate that, as I'm still subject to some Swedish regulation, my citizenship still gives me the right to vote in national elections.
I just find it a bit funny that I'm voting for representatives of the last Swedish circuit I lived in, and I wish Sweden did it like France and had a separate Swedes abroad circuit. Organizations for Swedes abroad are lobbying for this, but they have been doing it forever without much progress.
One more thing about EU rules: EU citizens, citizens of an EU country, vote for EU Parliament representatives of the country they reside, not their country of citizenship. This also makes sense to me.
There is some cheating going on where some people double-vote in their country of citizenship and their country of residence, but according to reports, it's too insignificant to matter.
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@DavidBHimself I have lived in another country. I even held a triple citizenship for a certain time. I didn’t vote in elections for regions I was not residing in.
The question is literally: Should people that lived in your country (A) but moved away to another country (B) be still allowed to vote in your country (A)?
@EdwinG
I do understand the question, it's your example with A and B that didn't make much sense (The situation in country B is irrelevant to the question).You do understand that people with multiple nationalities are a special case, right?
The question is about emigrants. If you have dual citizenship you're not an emigrant or an immigrant.
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As a Swede living abroad, I also appreciate that, as I'm still subject to some Swedish regulation, my citizenship still gives me the right to vote in national elections.
I just find it a bit funny that I'm voting for representatives of the last Swedish circuit I lived in, and I wish Sweden did it like France and had a separate Swedes abroad circuit. Organizations for Swedes abroad are lobbying for this, but they have been doing it forever without much progress.
One more thing about EU rules: EU citizens, citizens of an EU country, vote for EU Parliament representatives of the country they reside, not their country of citizenship. This also makes sense to me.
There is some cheating going on where some people double-vote in their country of citizenship and their country of residence, but according to reports, it's too insignificant to matter.
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@DavidBHimself I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
And yes, I did lose my right to vote when I moved a couple of times, even as a resident+citizen of said location. That’s how our imperfect electoral system works. 😥
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@evan I agree with @EricLawton -- "expatriate" is an imperial term. I see no confusion of terminology in his comment, quite the opposite.
In the context of the poll, "expatriate" was used about emigrants, not immigrants, but the point stands. The clearest term, if a bit long and pedantic, might have been "citizens who are not residents".
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@DavidBHimself I’m suggesting that you should be able to vote where you live.
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@EdwinG So, you're basically saying that I and many other people should lose their rights to vote?
To lose my most basic right as a citizen because I happen to not live on a piece of soil, but on another one?Quite a strange way to see democracy, indeed. (see where my "landowner" reference is coming from)
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@DavidBHimself The situation in country B is indeed not relevant (resident, citizen), but it is relevant that they are not living in country A because they live in B.
In other words, should A’s not residing citizens be allowed to vote in A? And I’m saying, no.
