Should expatriate citizens of your country have the right to vote?
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@evan I would say no.
My rationale: Who am I as a resident and citizen of another country to decide what the residents of my other citizenship country wish/want. I don’t pay taxes there, I don’t participate in their active life, etc. For all intents and purposes, they are foreigners
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@evan@cosocial.ca are you guys actually implying there are scenarios in which a citizen of a country shouldn’t be allowed to vote for their country?
Like, for real? 
wtf is citizenship for then? -
@evan
If you choose to not live in a country then why should you get the privilege of a vote in that country? -
@evan From some answers, I see a lot of people have the good old landowner (male and white too?) mentality when it comes to voting rights. You would expect people on the Fediverse to understand what democracy and citizenship are a little better.
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@evan Who on Earth doesn't vote "Yes" ?
People who don't understand what citizenship is, I presume.@DavidBHimself @evan I simply don't like what expats tend to vote for.
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If they've established themselves elsewhere—job, home—no.
Conversely, unlike some countries, emigrants shouldn't have to pay taxes on income not earned in their former country.
They regain the right on return.
And for the same reason, immigrants¹ who have established themselves somewhere—job, home,… —should be allowed to vote after at most 5 years.
Disclosure: I emigrated from England and never voted there since.
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1. Funny how it's mostly white people who are called "expats", people of colour are "immigrants" -
@DavidBHimself That is not my point 🤦♂️
What I’m saying… who am I to impose my political preferences as a citizen of country A to people in country B that I don’t live with and don’t know their current needs‽
Let’s say… the hypothetical where I live, we decide to that mastering multiple languages (A and B) is a requirement to get your secondary education diploma. But in country B, such a suggestion would be seen as an attack against said country.
It’s just hard to find non-tax examples
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If they've established themselves elsewhere—job, home—no.
Conversely, unlike some countries, emigrants shouldn't have to pay taxes on income not earned in their former country.
They regain the right on return.
And for the same reason, immigrants¹ who have established themselves somewhere—job, home,… —should be allowed to vote after at most 5 years.
Disclosure: I emigrated from England and never voted there since.
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1. Funny how it's mostly white people who are called "expats", people of colour are "immigrants"@EricLawton "emigrants" is also a good term.
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@EricLawton "emigrants" is also a good term.
@EricLawton I think when you are talking from the perspective of the country they left, "immigrant" (in + migrant) is inaccurate.
Other terms we use: overseas citizens, citizens abroad.
I'm not actually across a sea from my birth country, unless you count the St. Lawrence Seaway, so I don't use that term often.
Abroad sounds like it could mean temporarily away, like on a long vacation .
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@DavidBHimself That is not my point 🤦♂️
What I’m saying… who am I to impose my political preferences as a citizen of country A to people in country B that I don’t live with and don’t know their current needs‽
Let’s say… the hypothetical where I live, we decide to that mastering multiple languages (A and B) is a requirement to get your secondary education diploma. But in country B, such a suggestion would be seen as an attack against said country.
It’s just hard to find non-tax examples
@EdwinG
And yet, you did mention taxes. Something that would never cross my mind when talking about voting.Also, you've never lived in another country, have you?
Who are you to impose your political preference? You are a citizen of your own country, just like every other citizen of your own country "impose" their political preference when it's election time.
(and sorry, I don't understand your countries A and B example, it's not about country A and B, it's about country A only)
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@DavidBHimself @evan I simply don't like what expats tend to vote for.
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@EdwinG
And yet, you did mention taxes. Something that would never cross my mind when talking about voting.Also, you've never lived in another country, have you?
Who are you to impose your political preference? You are a citizen of your own country, just like every other citizen of your own country "impose" their political preference when it's election time.
(and sorry, I don't understand your countries A and B example, it's not about country A and B, it's about country A only)
@DavidBHimself I have lived in another country. I even held a triple citizenship for a certain time. I didn’t vote in elections for regions I was not residing in.
The question is literally: Should people that lived in your country (A) but moved away to another country (B) be still allowed to vote in your country (A)?
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As a Swede living abroad, I also appreciate that, as I'm still subject to some Swedish regulation, my citizenship still gives me the right to vote in national elections.
I just find it a bit funny that I'm voting for representatives of the last Swedish circuit I lived in, and I wish Sweden did it like France and had a separate Swedes abroad circuit. Organizations for Swedes abroad are lobbying for this, but they have been doing it forever without much progress.
One more thing about EU rules: EU citizens, citizens of an EU country, vote for EU Parliament representatives of the country they reside, not their country of citizenship. This also makes sense to me.
There is some cheating going on where some people double-vote in their country of citizenship and their country of residence, but according to reports, it's too insignificant to matter.
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@DavidBHimself I have lived in another country. I even held a triple citizenship for a certain time. I didn’t vote in elections for regions I was not residing in.
The question is literally: Should people that lived in your country (A) but moved away to another country (B) be still allowed to vote in your country (A)?
@EdwinG
I do understand the question, it's your example with A and B that didn't make much sense (The situation in country B is irrelevant to the question).You do understand that people with multiple nationalities are a special case, right?
The question is about emigrants. If you have dual citizenship you're not an emigrant or an immigrant.
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As a Swede living abroad, I also appreciate that, as I'm still subject to some Swedish regulation, my citizenship still gives me the right to vote in national elections.
I just find it a bit funny that I'm voting for representatives of the last Swedish circuit I lived in, and I wish Sweden did it like France and had a separate Swedes abroad circuit. Organizations for Swedes abroad are lobbying for this, but they have been doing it forever without much progress.
One more thing about EU rules: EU citizens, citizens of an EU country, vote for EU Parliament representatives of the country they reside, not their country of citizenship. This also makes sense to me.
There is some cheating going on where some people double-vote in their country of citizenship and their country of residence, but according to reports, it's too insignificant to matter.
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@EdwinG
I do understand the question, it's your example with A and B that didn't make much sense (The situation in country B is irrelevant to the question).You do understand that people with multiple nationalities are a special case, right?
The question is about emigrants. If you have dual citizenship you're not an emigrant or an immigrant.
@DavidBHimself The situation in country B is indeed not relevant (resident, citizen), but it is relevant that they are not living in country A because they live in B.
In other words, should A’s not residing citizens be allowed to vote in A? And I’m saying, no.
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@DavidBHimself The situation in country B is indeed not relevant (resident, citizen), but it is relevant that they are not living in country A because they live in B.
In other words, should A’s not residing citizens be allowed to vote in A? And I’m saying, no.
@EdwinG So, you're basically saying that I and many other people should lose their rights to vote?
To lose my most basic right as a citizen because I happen to not live on a piece of soil, but on another one?Quite a strange way to see democracy, indeed. (see where my "landowner" reference is coming from)
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@EdwinG So, you're basically saying that I and many other people should lose their rights to vote?
To lose my most basic right as a citizen because I happen to not live on a piece of soil, but on another one?Quite a strange way to see democracy, indeed. (see where my "landowner" reference is coming from)
@DavidBHimself I’m suggesting that you should be able to vote where you live.
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@EricLawton I think when you are talking from the perspective of the country they left, "immigrant" (in + migrant) is inaccurate.
Other terms we use: overseas citizens, citizens abroad.
I'm not actually across a sea from my birth country, unless you count the St. Lawrence Seaway, so I don't use that term often.
Abroad sounds like it could mean temporarily away, like on a long vacation .
@evan I agree with @EricLawton -- "expatriate" is an imperial term. I see no confusion of terminology in his comment, quite the opposite.
In the context of the poll, "expatriate" was used about emigrants, not immigrants, but the point stands. The clearest term, if a bit long and pedantic, might have been "citizens who are not residents".
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@DavidBHimself I’m suggesting that you should be able to vote where you live.
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La sonda marziana Curiosity ha trovato delle scritte dell'antica civiltà marziana. Una di esse, una volta decifrata, è la seguente: 5x² − 50x + 125 = 0: x = 5 e x = 8. In effetti 5 è una soluzione dell'equazione, ma 8 non lo è: 5×64 − 50× + 125 = 45. Quante dita avevano i marziani?(trovate un aiutino sul mio sito, alla pagina https://xmau.com/quizzini/p784.html; la risposta verrà postata lì il prossimo me https://wp.me/p6hcSh-91s
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What a hole.
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Tamper Detection with Time-Domain Reflectometry
For certain high-security devices, such as card readers, ATMs, and hardware security modules, normal physical security isn’t enough – they need to wipe out their sensitive data if someone starts drilling through the case. Such devices, therefore, often integrate circuit meshes into their cases and regularly monitor them for changes that could indicate damage. To improve the sensitivity and accuracy of such countermeasures, [Jan Sebastian Götte] and [Björn Scheuermann] recently designed a time-domain reflectometer to monitor meshes (pre-print paper).
Many meshes are made from flexible circuit boards with winding traces built into the case, so cutting or drilling into the case breaks a trace. The problem is that most common ways to detect broken traces, such as by resistance or capacitance measurements, aren’t easy to implement with both high sensitivity and low error rates. Instead, this system uses time-domain reflectometry: it sends a sharp pulse into the mesh, then times the returning echoes to create a mesh fingerprint. When the circuit is damaged, it creates an additional echo, which is detected by classifier software. If enough subsequent measurements find a significant fingerprint change, it triggers a data wipe.
The most novel aspect of this design is its affordability. An STM32G4-series microcontroller manages the timing, pulse generation, and measurement, thanks to its two fast ADCs and a high-resolution timer with sub-200 picosecond resolution. For a pulse-shaping amplifier, [Jan] and [Björn] used the high-speed amplifiers in an HDMI redriver chip, which would normally compensate for cable and connector losses. Despite its inexpensive design, the circuit was sensitive enough to detect when oscilloscope probes contacted the trace, pick up temperature changes, and even discern the tiny variations between different copies of the same mesh.
It’s not absolutely impossible for an attacker to bypass this system, nor was it intended to be, but overcoming it would take a great deal of skill and some custom equipment, such as a non-conductive drill bit. If you’re interested in seeing such a system in the real world, check out this teardown of a payment terminal. One of the same authors also previously wrote a KiCad plugin to generate anti-tamper meshes.
Thanks to [mark999] for the tip!
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@DavidBHimself I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
And yes, I did lose my right to vote when I moved a couple of times, even as a resident+citizen of said location. That’s how our imperfect electoral system works. 😥
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@evan I agree with @EricLawton -- "expatriate" is an imperial term. I see no confusion of terminology in his comment, quite the opposite.
In the context of the poll, "expatriate" was used about emigrants, not immigrants, but the point stands. The clearest term, if a bit long and pedantic, might have been "citizens who are not residents".
