Should Fediverse interfaces that have a "Like" button also have a "Dislike" button?
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@evan No, but random emoji responses would be cool (a la Slack & Zulip)
@wcbdata including thumbs down? And other negative responses?
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@evan Consumating had thumbs down, people abused it
@benbrown Reddit has downvote and it's a pretty essential part of their system.
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@phaysis ActivityPub supports any kind of activity. It just defines side effects for a subset of the Activity Vocabulary types. But you can send other types through the network.
@evan Ah right, fair. Didn't see a spec for the DislikeCollection so I assumed it couldn't support dislikes, but implementations can be extended at-will with undefined side-effects, heh.
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@evan Ah right, fair. Didn't see a spec for the DislikeCollection so I assumed it couldn't support dislikes, but implementations can be extended at-will with undefined side-effects, heh.
@phaysis we don't have a spec for the `dislikes` collection! That's correct.
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undefined evan@cosocial.ca shared this topic on
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@evan variety and optionality are what I'm here for. I don't need a dislike button on Mastodon, but I might want it in a different social context.
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@evan Human reactions are rarely binary, so no.
If I understand a star correctly, it means 'you are seen/heard' and not 'like'. -
@evan Human reactions are rarely binary, so no.
If I understand a star correctly, it means 'you are seen/heard' and not 'like'. -
@evan Thanks for the pointer, until now I never read the spec.. Good to know.
I guess I'm using it wrong then :) -
@evan Thanks for the pointer, until now I never read the spec.. Good to know.
I guess I'm using it wrong then :)@po3mah NBD. It's definitely open to interpretation!
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@po3mah NBD. It's definitely open to interpretation!
@evan actually, we need 4 of them:
like
like, but...
dislike
dislike, but...
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@evan actually, we need 4 of them:
like
like, but...
dislike
dislike, but...
:)@po3mah this guy gets it
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Thanks to everyone who replied.
I am a Yes, but. I think downvote/dislike buttons are a great distributed moderation tool. Many of the microaggressions (and not-so-micro aggressions) that make social networks difficult could be helped a lot by peer moderation.
The "but" is that it is hard to implement well, and hard to ensure that mobs don't silence important but unpopular voices.
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@evan So I said "no" but I should have said "no, but".
I don't understand the purpose of there being a favorite button at all, there's no algorithm so number of likes and dislikes doesn't change anything.
So my "no, but" is that they shouldn't have a favorite button either. They should encourage people to boost things, since that's how the "algorithm" works here -- favoriting something doesn't help other people find it so it is a placebo that gets in the way of actually spreading cool stuff.
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Thanks to everyone who replied.
I am a Yes, but. I think downvote/dislike buttons are a great distributed moderation tool. Many of the microaggressions (and not-so-micro aggressions) that make social networks difficult could be helped a lot by peer moderation.
The "but" is that it is hard to implement well, and hard to ensure that mobs don't silence important but unpopular voices.
@evan I think there is a required level of common understanding needed to really have like/dislike, upvote/downvote, or agree/disagree be usable without being abused - it doesn't translate well across online sub-cultures without some careful UX thinking and knowing your user community.
It works on Ravelry, which uses "Agree/Disagree" but there are two essentials there that I have not seen anywhere else: /con't
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@evan I think there is a required level of common understanding needed to really have like/dislike, upvote/downvote, or agree/disagree be usable without being abused - it doesn't translate well across online sub-cultures without some careful UX thinking and knowing your user community.
It works on Ravelry, which uses "Agree/Disagree" but there are two essentials there that I have not seen anywhere else: /con't
1) Common context and language - there are 11 or so million users but we all knit or at least do some kind of yarn crafting.
2) Individual users and group administrators can selectively enable/disable these "click to comment generically" shorthands - so if a group moderator doesn't want Disagree whining in their group, they turn it off; if an individual user doesn't want to be bothered by seeing these, they can hide them.
Also, Ravelry has 6 of these for nuance:
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1) Common context and language - there are 11 or so million users but we all knit or at least do some kind of yarn crafting.
2) Individual users and group administrators can selectively enable/disable these "click to comment generically" shorthands - so if a group moderator doesn't want Disagree whining in their group, they turn it off; if an individual user doesn't want to be bothered by seeing these, they can hide them.
Also, Ravelry has 6 of these for nuance:
Oh, I suppose a third reason these work well in the specific Ravelry community is that it is actively and collaboratively moderated and has a very simple but well laid out Code of Conduct. And a longstanding culture of everyone there being on board with a clear understanding of what those buttons mean - "Disagree" is to be taken as referring to the objective content of a post, such as "the BEST way to knit is Continental" being something one can disagree with.
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@evan So I said "no" but I should have said "no, but".
I don't understand the purpose of there being a favorite button at all, there's no algorithm so number of likes and dislikes doesn't change anything.
So my "no, but" is that they shouldn't have a favorite button either. They should encourage people to boost things, since that's how the "algorithm" works here -- favoriting something doesn't help other people find it so it is a placebo that gets in the way of actually spreading cool stuff.
@bipolaron It's OK if you don't understand.
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Oh, I suppose a third reason these work well in the specific Ravelry community is that it is actively and collaboratively moderated and has a very simple but well laid out Code of Conduct. And a longstanding culture of everyone there being on board with a clear understanding of what those buttons mean - "Disagree" is to be taken as referring to the objective content of a post, such as "the BEST way to knit is Continental" being something one can disagree with.
@evan It's very hard to be an asshole on Ravelry because the other 10,999,999 users either won't acknowledge your existence, or if you're forcing them to do so, they will not only put you in the corner with no privileges, but they will likely find your mother, your grandmother and every auntie who ever taught you a thing about knitting and they will get you flat-out grounded or beaten with a flipflop until you smarten up.
Knitters should be consulted for any community management plan, srsly.
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@evan So I said "no" but I should have said "no, but".
I don't understand the purpose of there being a favorite button at all, there's no algorithm so number of likes and dislikes doesn't change anything.
So my "no, but" is that they shouldn't have a favorite button either. They should encourage people to boost things, since that's how the "algorithm" works here -- favoriting something doesn't help other people find it so it is a placebo that gets in the way of actually spreading cool stuff.
@bipolaron but every favourite makes me feel seen and liked! like eye contact or a smile!
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@bipolaron but every favourite makes me feel seen and liked! like eye contact or a smile!
@sus I do like that little bit, though I feel like I'd boost more if it weren't an option. I think I don't understand the original poll because it must be about a kind of instance I'm not on and have never heard of.
I didn't realize any mastodon instances were more like a reddit in this way, if that's what was meant, sounds very different for sure.
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I spent that time traveling all over the Friuli-Venezia Giulia, and the Veneto provinces. The food was great, but the people were even better.
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