In honor of Meta's latest announcement, a thread on 175 years of 3D failure.
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With 3D movies back in fashion, electronics manufacturers wasted no time taking the obvious next step: 3D TV. One CES these were everywhere, and the next one they weren't. 7/
But the big new future that came out of 3D movies was virtual reality, round 2. Starting in 2010 or so there were many stabs at this, all funded by rafts of ZIRP investor money. 8/
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But the big new future that came out of 3D movies was virtual reality, round 2. Starting in 2010 or so there were many stabs at this, all funded by rafts of ZIRP investor money. 8/
I'd put the peak of this era in 2021, when Mark Zuckerberg renamed Facebook to Meta, because a VR universe, the metaverse, was the future of both play and work. 9/
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I'd put the peak of this era in 2021, when Mark Zuckerberg renamed Facebook to Meta, because a VR universe, the metaverse, was the future of both play and work. 9/
This era is clearly in retreat with mass Meta layoffs and killing products that were, only a few years ago, the future of both Meta and the world: https://www.theverge.com/tech/863209/meta-has-discontinued-its-metaverse-for-work-too
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This era is clearly in retreat with mass Meta layoffs and killing products that were, only a few years ago, the future of both Meta and the world: https://www.theverge.com/tech/863209/meta-has-discontinued-its-metaverse-for-work-too
10/Now as people have already pointed out, stereoscopic 3D has never been totally dead. Look, for example, at this graph of the proportion of movies in 3D. It's kept bumping along. https://stephenfollows.com/p/how-are-3d-movies-performing-at-the-box-office 11/
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Now as people have already pointed out, stereoscopic 3D has never been totally dead. Look, for example, at this graph of the proportion of movies in 3D. It's kept bumping along. https://stephenfollows.com/p/how-are-3d-movies-performing-at-the-box-office 11/
My point here isn't "3D bad". It's that for 175 years or more, people have been thinking "2D success + stereoscopic 3D technology = the future".
It's not a dumb hypothesis, really. People do process (a relatively close portion of) the world with binocular vision. Seems possibly important. 12/
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My point here isn't "3D bad". It's that for 175 years or more, people have been thinking "2D success + stereoscopic 3D technology = the future".
It's not a dumb hypothesis, really. People do process (a relatively close portion of) the world with binocular vision. Seems possibly important. 12/
My objection is that otherwise smart people, over and over and over again, make big investments in that hypothesis without ever understanding why it has failed so many times before. Facebook's VR losses alone are above $75 billion dollars.
Stereoscopic 3D is a cool novelty, but at this point I'd be amazed if anything serious ever comes out of it. And if it does, it will be because somebody really looked at the failures and pursues products people actually care about. Because so far, every time, people get bored and quietly go back to the thing that was already working for them. 13/
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My objection is that otherwise smart people, over and over and over again, make big investments in that hypothesis without ever understanding why it has failed so many times before. Facebook's VR losses alone are above $75 billion dollars.
Stereoscopic 3D is a cool novelty, but at this point I'd be amazed if anything serious ever comes out of it. And if it does, it will be because somebody really looked at the failures and pursues products people actually care about. Because so far, every time, people get bored and quietly go back to the thing that was already working for them. 13/
Here we move from history to speculation, but I think the real reason this doesn't matter is that humans are extremely good at reconstructing mental 3D from visual 2D.
It doesn't appear to be well studied, but human binocular vision mainly works well up close, and peters out around 50 feet.
But anybody can look out a window and have a decent 3D model in their heads extending out hundreds, even thousands of feet. 14/
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Here we move from history to speculation, but I think the real reason this doesn't matter is that humans are extremely good at reconstructing mental 3D from visual 2D.
It doesn't appear to be well studied, but human binocular vision mainly works well up close, and peters out around 50 feet.
But anybody can look out a window and have a decent 3D model in their heads extending out hundreds, even thousands of feet. 14/
My grandfather was blind in one eye from 12, but you never would have known it; he just lived his life. My understanding was that it was more a field-of-view problem for him than anything involving depth perception.
You can try it now yourself. Close one eye and go get a snack or a book from the shelf. How much does binocular vision matter at 1 foot, 10 feet, 30 feet? /15
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My grandfather was blind in one eye from 12, but you never would have known it; he just lived his life. My understanding was that it was more a field-of-view problem for him than anything involving depth perception.
You can try it now yourself. Close one eye and go get a snack or a book from the shelf. How much does binocular vision matter at 1 foot, 10 feet, 30 feet? /15
@williampietri just gonna rudely chime in as someone who until recently had no binocular vision (and still has very little) and state that yeah, in my experience lack of it MOSTLY doesn’t affect daily life: essentially it’s like watching TV, as you say, depth can be inferred from the 2D information you’re presented.
HOWEVER: the world is a hell of a lot more visually interesting and easy to navigate with it. And now I can catch things when they’re thrown at me.
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@williampietri just gonna rudely chime in as someone who until recently had no binocular vision (and still has very little) and state that yeah, in my experience lack of it MOSTLY doesn’t affect daily life: essentially it’s like watching TV, as you say, depth can be inferred from the 2D information you’re presented.
HOWEVER: the world is a hell of a lot more visually interesting and easy to navigate with it. And now I can catch things when they’re thrown at me.
@astronomerritt Ooh, fascinating! Thanks for responding. How did you come to start getting it?
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@astronomerritt Ooh, fascinating! Thanks for responding. How did you come to start getting it?
@williampietri I have severe amblyopia (or lazy eye), and because vision in one eye is so much worse than the other, my brain simply switches off the bad eye in favour of my good eye. I was what is called “functionally blind” in my left eye, rather than physically blind.
Turns out VR headsets force my brain to use the eye it usually ignores. The first time I put one on was the first time I ever saw in 3D. I cried. Got one for myself. Started using it pretty frequently… and found that my brain has started using my left eye a little even when I’m not wearing the headset. My left eye’s vision has even improved a bit because my brain isn’t so violently opposed to using it any more! My optometrist is very excited. I now measure as having the lowest possible level of depth perception, but I DO have it.
This actually happens with a number of people with amblyopia to the point therapeutic treatments are in development using VR headsets, or were last time I checked.
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@williampietri I have severe amblyopia (or lazy eye), and because vision in one eye is so much worse than the other, my brain simply switches off the bad eye in favour of my good eye. I was what is called “functionally blind” in my left eye, rather than physically blind.
Turns out VR headsets force my brain to use the eye it usually ignores. The first time I put one on was the first time I ever saw in 3D. I cried. Got one for myself. Started using it pretty frequently… and found that my brain has started using my left eye a little even when I’m not wearing the headset. My left eye’s vision has even improved a bit because my brain isn’t so violently opposed to using it any more! My optometrist is very excited. I now measure as having the lowest possible level of depth perception, but I DO have it.
This actually happens with a number of people with amblyopia to the point therapeutic treatments are in development using VR headsets, or were last time I checked.
@astronomerritt Hey, that's awesome! Now there's a great use for stereoscopic 3D.
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@astronomerritt Hey, that's awesome! Now there's a great use for stereoscopic 3D.
@williampietri Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your thread, I don’t think 3D tech is ever really going to be a Big Thing in most people’s lives and trying to push it on folk is likely to fail. But it does have its niche uses and as you say, it can be a fun toy 😊
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@williampietri Don’t get me wrong, I agree with your thread, I don’t think 3D tech is ever really going to be a Big Thing in most people’s lives and trying to push it on folk is likely to fail. But it does have its niche uses and as you say, it can be a fun toy 😊
@astronomerritt @williampietri This is shockingly close to what the Berkeley School of Optometry hoped would happen for my kid, but one generation of technology back, with 3D TV and vidya games. Unfortunately he was too little to play any of the games successfully (I think 4-5 years old?) so it just became a source of frustration for us all when we couldn't follow through on the therapy protocol.
Now nearly an adult, he knows that VR has worked for others but hasn't yet decided he'd like to try it, for fear of disappointment. Inspiring to hear a first-hand account!
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@astronomerritt @williampietri This is shockingly close to what the Berkeley School of Optometry hoped would happen for my kid, but one generation of technology back, with 3D TV and vidya games. Unfortunately he was too little to play any of the games successfully (I think 4-5 years old?) so it just became a source of frustration for us all when we couldn't follow through on the therapy protocol.
Now nearly an adult, he knows that VR has worked for others but hasn't yet decided he'd like to try it, for fear of disappointment. Inspiring to hear a first-hand account!
@mogul @williampietri Oh, that’s fascinating, I didn’t know they were trying this with 3D TVs!
In general there used to be this idea that once you’re an adult, you’re stuck with amblyopia, and nothing can be done: but recent science has shown the brain’s visual cortex actually retains plasticity even in adults, and it CAN learn to use the bad eye again. If your kid hasn’t tried a VR headset to see if the 3D effect works for him, that’s a good first step (as it doesn’t always, and it can make folk nauseous).
I got mine with very low expectations. I’d heard of VR headsets helping amblyopic folk but I wasn’t really hoping for much. The first time I realised I was seeing depth even with the headset off was WILD. I was just poking a chair like “it’s CLOSE!”. I’d love for your kid to experience that too one day.
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@mogul @williampietri Oh, that’s fascinating, I didn’t know they were trying this with 3D TVs!
In general there used to be this idea that once you’re an adult, you’re stuck with amblyopia, and nothing can be done: but recent science has shown the brain’s visual cortex actually retains plasticity even in adults, and it CAN learn to use the bad eye again. If your kid hasn’t tried a VR headset to see if the 3D effect works for him, that’s a good first step (as it doesn’t always, and it can make folk nauseous).
I got mine with very low expectations. I’d heard of VR headsets helping amblyopic folk but I wasn’t really hoping for much. The first time I realised I was seeing depth even with the headset off was WILD. I was just poking a chair like “it’s CLOSE!”. I’d love for your kid to experience that too one day.
@astronomerritt @williampietri I've heard about the research showimg greater adaptability in adults, and he has too, which is why he didn't rush to it once VR seemed to help (he had higher priority stuff happening). What was your entry point? Did you use the explicit therapy system for this, or just use VR as a gamer on your own?
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@astronomerritt @williampietri I've heard about the research showimg greater adaptability in adults, and he has too, which is why he didn't rush to it once VR seemed to help (he had higher priority stuff happening). What was your entry point? Did you use the explicit therapy system for this, or just use VR as a gamer on your own?
@astronomerritt @williampietri (Note he has other complications; the amblyopic eye had a congenital cataract removed early, so there's a plastic lens in there.)
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@astronomerritt @williampietri (Note he has other complications; the amblyopic eye had a congenital cataract removed early, so there's a plastic lens in there.)
@mogul Just VR as a gamer. I play video games anyway, and I love rhythm games, so I really wanted the headset to play Beat Saber and I figured if I saw any miraculous improvement that would be amazing. I did not expect to ACTUALLY see miraculous improvement.
I don’t know how a plastic lens might affect things: it might be worth speaking to an optometrist or ophthalmologist before trying?
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@mogul Just VR as a gamer. I play video games anyway, and I love rhythm games, so I really wanted the headset to play Beat Saber and I figured if I saw any miraculous improvement that would be amazing. I did not expect to ACTUALLY see miraculous improvement.
I don’t know how a plastic lens might affect things: it might be worth speaking to an optometrist or ophthalmologist before trying?
@astronomerritt We may; he's a teenager and I don't want to press him to do something he doesn't want.
OTOH if that's all it takes... There's a VR headset and Beat Saber available in his brother's room! So the barrier to trying it is really low compared to "doctor agrees + insurance agrees".
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@astronomerritt We may; he's a teenager and I don't want to press him to do something he doesn't want.
OTOH if that's all it takes... There's a VR headset and Beat Saber available in his brother's room! So the barrier to trying it is really low compared to "doctor agrees + insurance agrees".
@astronomerritt How much did you play before you noticed the difference?
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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https://www3.nasa.gov/send-your-name-with-artemis/
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@sortius thank
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@Otttoz I'm sorry, I don't speak Italian, so I had to translate that. Yeh, they're cooked, only just.
The mussels are cooked with shallot, leek, celery, white wine, thyme, and parsley, then cream added at the end
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@sortius la porzione che a me serve per capire se sono cotte
