Is the Risorgimento an important part of Canadian history?
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I am interested in other frameworks; especially those that treat the promise of multiculturalism and civic nationalism seriously. Where Canada is the people and the cultures who are here, right now, treated equally. Where we retain the connections and through lines from origin cultures, and collectively own them. Instead of being an Anglo-French nation with Indian people in it, we could be an Indian nation, and a Chinese one, and a Haitian one.
I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
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I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
About 2 million Canadians trace their ancestry back to Italy; that's about 5% of the population.
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About 2 million Canadians trace their ancestry back to Italy; that's about 5% of the population.
Italy's history in the 1800s is one of throwing off foreign occupation and uniting into one nation - the Risorgimento - that culminated in the 1860s. The irony is that a population boom and economic downturn directly related to the unifying wars led to a generation that could not find room in the nation their parents and grandparents had made for them. A flow of emigration to the Americas, including Canada, ensued.
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I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
@evan interesting thoughts, I've been thinking (and trying to write) about the same issue from an European angle, especially about the relationship between states and "nations". One thread that I want to explore further, especially for multiculturalism and immigrants/diaspora is the concept of Doikayt that the Jewish Bund advocated for. That might be a thread in your issues as well.
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Italy's history in the 1800s is one of throwing off foreign occupation and uniting into one nation - the Risorgimento - that culminated in the 1860s. The irony is that a population boom and economic downturn directly related to the unifying wars led to a generation that could not find room in the nation their parents and grandparents had made for them. A flow of emigration to the Americas, including Canada, ensued.
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Italy's history in the 1800s is one of throwing off foreign occupation and uniting into one nation - the Risorgimento - that culminated in the 1860s. The irony is that a population boom and economic downturn directly related to the unifying wars led to a generation that could not find room in the nation their parents and grandparents had made for them. A flow of emigration to the Americas, including Canada, ensued.
So, I am trying to hold an idea of Canada in my mind where the story of Italian Canadians (and West Indians and Maghrebi and Ukrainian and, and, and) is as foundational and collectively held as the story of the Great Peace and the Acadian expulsion or the national railroad. If there is a "we" here, as a Canadian, it's my story too. It feels strange and uncomfortable, which is why I started this poll. And, why, I think, it has so few responses. Anyway, I am Yes, but it's hard.
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I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
@evan@cosocial.ca
It’s a fortunate coincidence that the whole topic started considering the role of Italian culture in Canadian history
That is because even now, what might look from the outside as a cohesive nation and culture, is still the patchwork of Italic cultures and languages often completely different from each other that existed before the unification, in such a way we still experience actual culture shocks when travelling from a region to another. I guess this kind of cultural framework is similar to many other nations, still I’d say the Italian one is quite prominent in its internal differences
And as other nations, it happened that cultural differences created tensions motivated by classism and internal racism, especially towards southern Italians, leading to the spread of the word “terrone” as an insult to describe them.
And lots of the prejudices that existed more than a century ago are still alive in the mind of a lot of Italians.
Now try to imagine the kind of tensions that exist now between Italians and immigrants’ cultures, in a country that sometimes doesn’t even feel like an actual country -
So, I am trying to hold an idea of Canada in my mind where the story of Italian Canadians (and West Indians and Maghrebi and Ukrainian and, and, and) is as foundational and collectively held as the story of the Great Peace and the Acadian expulsion or the national railroad. If there is a "we" here, as a Canadian, it's my story too. It feels strange and uncomfortable, which is why I started this poll. And, why, I think, it has so few responses. Anyway, I am Yes, but it's hard.
I should probably point out that many people here in Canada fucking *hate* the very idea of this kind of equitable multiculturalism. The idea that arepas and poutine are both fully and equally Canadian sounds like hell to them. This is not unusual anywhere, I don't think.
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I should probably point out that many people here in Canada fucking *hate* the very idea of this kind of equitable multiculturalism. The idea that arepas and poutine are both fully and equally Canadian sounds like hell to them. This is not unusual anywhere, I don't think.
@evan people in ontario who think that poutine isn't the result of multiculturalism 🤔
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I should probably point out that many people here in Canada fucking *hate* the very idea of this kind of equitable multiculturalism. The idea that arepas and poutine are both fully and equally Canadian sounds like hell to them. This is not unusual anywhere, I don't think.
@evan hmm, but arepas and poutine aren't both fully and equally Canadian, right?
I say this as an immigrant who's moved a lot and has a multicultural identity - I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that poutine is Canadian and arepas are not. Like, if I'm trying to eat arepas, I'm not going to go to a Canadian restaurant. Am I missing something?
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@evan hmm, but arepas and poutine aren't both fully and equally Canadian, right?
I say this as an immigrant who's moved a lot and has a multicultural identity - I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that poutine is Canadian and arepas are not. Like, if I'm trying to eat arepas, I'm not going to go to a Canadian restaurant. Am I missing something?
@being you are, and you should read the rest of the thread. In western multiculturalism we treat immigrant and indigenous cultures as secondary and subordinate and I want to think about other ways. One is to define Canada as the people who are here right now, and Canadian culture as the things those people make and do.
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@evan I'm not sure how the two are related.
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I should probably point out that many people here in Canada fucking *hate* the very idea of this kind of equitable multiculturalism. The idea that arepas and poutine are both fully and equally Canadian sounds like hell to them. This is not unusual anywhere, I don't think.
@evan I'm not entirely sure I understand your point. There are plenty of large English and French holidays that aren't celebrated here. Take Guy Fawkes day, for instance. While we have toned down the religious aspect of European holidays (Easter is often a two week holiday there), those are still part of our main holidays. I think we should dump government celebrations of all religious days. As for food, well I'd struggle to think of what a "Canadian" restaurant might serve, because at home we all eat a variety of foods that originate from all over the world. And we mix it up, but no one would ever call it fusion, it's just homemade food. Ottawa calls itself the Shawarma Capital of Canada, but it wasn't invented in Canada so calling it Canadian food feels like appropriation. Poutine and Nanaimo bars were invented here, so they get the Canadian designation. I guess we can call them Canadian shawarmas 🤷🏼♀️
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@evan hmm, but arepas and poutine aren't both fully and equally Canadian, right?
I say this as an immigrant who's moved a lot and has a multicultural identity - I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that poutine is Canadian and arepas are not. Like, if I'm trying to eat arepas, I'm not going to go to a Canadian restaurant. Am I missing something?
@being @evan there is something here about poutine being invented in Canada, something like how hamburgers and hot dogs were effectively German but were transformed in USA (mostly by adding bread lol) into something uniquely Usonian. I don’t know anything about Canadian arepas, but surely there’s unique fillings or something that are uniquely Canadian?
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I am interested in other frameworks; especially those that treat the promise of multiculturalism and civic nationalism seriously. Where Canada is the people and the cultures who are here, right now, treated equally. Where we retain the connections and through lines from origin cultures, and collectively own them. Instead of being an Anglo-French nation with Indian people in it, we could be an Indian nation, and a Chinese one, and a Haitian one.
@evan I think there's a lot we can learn from the structures in use in Rojava, which unfortunately is hard to find accurate, succinct information on. After some digging this report seems like one of the better run-downs in English https://web.archive.org/web/20211001172657/https://rojavainformationcenter.com/storage/2021/06/Beyond-the-frontlines-The-building-of-the-democratic-system-in-North-and-East-Syria-Report-Rojava-Information-Center-December-2019-Web-version.pdf
I think this model has a lot of promise and a lot we can learn, but would also need to be adapted. Just for example, the history of settler colonialism & white supremacy in Canada and the US IMO would demand more to address than just transplanting this council structure would do.
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@evan I'm not entirely sure I understand your point. There are plenty of large English and French holidays that aren't celebrated here. Take Guy Fawkes day, for instance. While we have toned down the religious aspect of European holidays (Easter is often a two week holiday there), those are still part of our main holidays. I think we should dump government celebrations of all religious days. As for food, well I'd struggle to think of what a "Canadian" restaurant might serve, because at home we all eat a variety of foods that originate from all over the world. And we mix it up, but no one would ever call it fusion, it's just homemade food. Ottawa calls itself the Shawarma Capital of Canada, but it wasn't invented in Canada so calling it Canadian food feels like appropriation. Poutine and Nanaimo bars were invented here, so they get the Canadian designation. I guess we can call them Canadian shawarmas 🤷🏼♀️
@mariellequinton the point is simple: Canada is the people who are here, Canadian history is our collective and individual stories, and Canadian culture is the things we say and make and do.
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@being @evan there is something here about poutine being invented in Canada, something like how hamburgers and hot dogs were effectively German but were transformed in USA (mostly by adding bread lol) into something uniquely Usonian. I don’t know anything about Canadian arepas, but surely there’s unique fillings or something that are uniquely Canadian?
@being @evan I do support what you’re saying about “the country’s food is the food made in the country” overall, btw, just wondering what would make it take that form in popular imagination. Italian immigrants made many unique foods down here that I’m proud to call our own. (I love muffuletta so much, and hey shout out to the Cajuns for popularizing it, that’s an honorary Canadian dish too tbh)
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@being @evan there is something here about poutine being invented in Canada, something like how hamburgers and hot dogs were effectively German but were transformed in USA (mostly by adding bread lol) into something uniquely Usonian. I don’t know anything about Canadian arepas, but surely there’s unique fillings or something that are uniquely Canadian?
@modulusshift @being do they have to be uniquely Canadian to be Canadian? Or is Canadian food just the food that Canadians eat, unique or not?
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@modulusshift @being do they have to be uniquely Canadian to be Canadian? Or is Canadian food just the food that Canadians eat, unique or not?
@evan @modulusshift @being isn't this the difference between a "melting pot" society and a "mosaic" society?
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@mariellequinton the point is simple: Canada is the people who are here, Canadian history is our collective and individual stories, and Canadian culture is the things we say and make and do.
@evan Hmm. But that doesn't make every event in world history important to Canadian history. Some things are less important. Some Australian MP that resigned 50 years ago is part of Canadian history in your sense, but I wouldn't label it as important. It's ok to be a footnote.
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Philip Glass pulls world premiere from Kennedy Center (Gift 🎁 link.)
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Yeah, kexec exists, and "guix system reconfigure ..." even generates a kexec script to reboot without going all the way into the bootloader... and sometimes even suceeds!
Maybe for some systems it is quite reliable; I have had mixed results, so not sure I would want to rely on kexec without a lot of testing...
Off the top of my head, petitboot implemented a "boot to minimal linux and kexec to full system" sort of interface... there may be other projects in this space as well.
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How many giraffes is that ??
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