Exactly.
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RE: https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/115937101960287352
Exactly. Pointing out that #Bluesky isn't *practically* decentralized yet is not a critique, it's a statement of the work they need to do. (and I wish them luck!)
Mastodon has its own demons to slay. No one is perfect here! We're just talking about how things should improve. I so don't want us to form a circular firing squad. We can all win.
@scottjenson in the end of the day all that matters is figuring out healthy "social media", online discourses where we share valuable information, enhance emotional states, share the wonder and pain of life. Devising digital environments that make us all better humans, more wholesome, less ugly societies, at times of great collective peril đ
If technically the way to achieve that is via COBOL running on a single mainframe monolith or billions of chatty Raspberry Pi's, its irrelevant really đ€Š
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@boris @scottjenson Thereâs been a great effort of talking about the Fediverse, and not just Mastodon.
https://jointhefediverse.net/ (among others)
But if weâre talking about Mastodon, thereâs been an effort to offer different instances:
https://joinmastodon.org/ (directly from Mastodon)
You search âJoin Fediverseâ or âJoin Mastodonâ, and you get offered a choice.
What do you get when you search âJoin Blueskyâ? Or âJoin ATmosphereâ? (Didnât know that was even a thing)@dmian @scottjenson thereâs a just kicking off UX research project (that Scott just became aware of) that is doing work on the best messaging for this.
Bluesky is one product but also a microblog data type (like ActivityPub Notes type that Mastodon and others implement).
You can choose your account host completely separate even from your app with ATProto, so itâs different.
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@dmian @scottjenson thereâs a just kicking off UX research project (that Scott just became aware of) that is doing work on the best messaging for this.
Bluesky is one product but also a microblog data type (like ActivityPub Notes type that Mastodon and others implement).
You can choose your account host completely separate even from your app with ATProto, so itâs different.
@dmian @scottjenson hereâs a (Brazilian) list of PDS account hosts as an example
https://blog.vicwalker.dev.br/3lz4g6zxeic2p
And fun fact this is a long form blog data type running on the Leaflet app, whose data lives in this userâs account.
I also donât expect a centralized âjoinâ site because thatâs not how ATProto works. Tricky to explain!
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@boris @scottjenson Iâm also on Bluesky, Iâve been waiting to see other instances interacting with it or even, a bridge to ActivityPub (heck! Even Threads was trying!) Iâm still waiting. If you put all your efforts on selling just one place, if you donât put your weight into promoting the community (the protocol is irrelevant to the user, most Fediverse users donât know about ActivityPub), you have no interest in federating, imho.
@dmian @scottjenson ATProto doesnât have âinstancesâ and this is part of the disconnect with fedi users looking for these full stack installs as they call them.
Hereâs my presentation from #Fedicon where I walk through a dozen or so different apps / data types https://bmannconsulting.com/notes/beyond-microblogging-atproto/
Some re-use Blueskyâs microblog type, many others have built their own.
Itâs not better, itâs just _different_ with different trade offs.
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@dmian @scottjenson ATProto doesnât have âinstancesâ and this is part of the disconnect with fedi users looking for these full stack installs as they call them.
Hereâs my presentation from #Fedicon where I walk through a dozen or so different apps / data types https://bmannconsulting.com/notes/beyond-microblogging-atproto/
Some re-use Blueskyâs microblog type, many others have built their own.
Itâs not better, itâs just _different_ with different trade offs.
@boris @scottjenson Yes, sorry for using âinstancesâ. But trust me, I want federated services to flourish, regardless of protocol.
To be honest, Iâm glad the âATmosphereâ nameâs been coined. People need to talk about that, the way others talk about the Fediverse, or the Web, and not ATProto, ActivityPub, or HTTP. The protocols are for developers. The rest needs communities, identities, and to know of the services that provide the means to connect. Imho, of course. -
@boris @scottjenson Yes, sorry for using âinstancesâ. But trust me, I want federated services to flourish, regardless of protocol.
To be honest, Iâm glad the âATmosphereâ nameâs been coined. People need to talk about that, the way others talk about the Fediverse, or the Web, and not ATProto, ActivityPub, or HTTP. The protocols are for developers. The rest needs communities, identities, and to know of the services that provide the means to connect. Imho, of course.@dmian @scottjenson yep, I agree! Hence this UX research. And why erasing the community Iâm helping build is sad.
Come join us at #ATmosphereConf this March in Vancouver https://news.atmosphereconf.org
DM me if you want more info.
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RE: https://mastodon.online/@mastodonmigration/115937101960287352
Exactly. Pointing out that #Bluesky isn't *practically* decentralized yet is not a critique, it's a statement of the work they need to do. (and I wish them luck!)
Mastodon has its own demons to slay. No one is perfect here! We're just talking about how things should improve. I so don't want us to form a circular firing squad. We can all win.
@scottjenson@social.coop realistically speaking i doubt we'll see the ATmosphere (cool name btw) be decentralised. The way their relays work is making sure only the rich can manage it.
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@scottjenson@social.coop realistically speaking i doubt we'll see the ATmosphere (cool name btw) be decentralised. The way their relays work is making sure only the rich can manage it.
@tragivictoria that is the one critique I hear over and over: relays are the decentralized weak point of #ATProto.
People love to complain about how odd #ActivityPub data sync is (which is true!) but I'd argue it's "good enough" and has the advantage of working on $5/month servers
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@dmian @scottjenson thereâs a just kicking off UX research project (that Scott just became aware of) that is doing work on the best messaging for this.
Bluesky is one product but also a microblog data type (like ActivityPub Notes type that Mastodon and others implement).
You can choose your account host completely separate even from your app with ATProto, so itâs different.
-
@dmian @scottjenson thereâs a just kicking off UX research project (that Scott just became aware of) that is doing work on the best messaging for this.
Bluesky is one product but also a microblog data type (like ActivityPub Notes type that Mastodon and others implement).
You can choose your account host completely separate even from your app with ATProto, so itâs different.
@boris @dmian @scottjenson this is something that was designed into ActivityPub and has largely been ignored. We're doing a lot of work on it at the W3C SocialCG group.
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@boris @dmian @scottjenson this is something that was designed into ActivityPub and has largely been ignored. We're doing a lot of work on it at the W3C SocialCG group.
