Should expatriate citizens of your country have the right to vote?
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@fabio say "emigrant" then. If you're living outside of Brazil, you're not an immigrant to Brazil.
@evan Good point!
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@fabio say "emigrant" then. If you're living outside of Brazil, you're not an immigrant to Brazil.
@fabio I intentionally chose "expatriate" as an accurate and clear term for describing citizens who live outside their nation of citizenship.
"Expatriate" and "emigrant" are almost synonyms, but "emigrant" is less well known and suggests the immediate aftermath of leaving.
I considered "overseas citizens", "voters abroad", and other terms, but I settled on expatriate because it's clear and accurate.
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@fabio I intentionally chose "expatriate" as an accurate and clear term for describing citizens who live outside their nation of citizenship.
"Expatriate" and "emigrant" are almost synonyms, but "emigrant" is less well known and suggests the immediate aftermath of leaving.
I considered "overseas citizens", "voters abroad", and other terms, but I settled on expatriate because it's clear and accurate.
@fabio I am aware of the concern you expressed.
People from richer countries living in poorer countries often have the luxury of defining themselves by their relationship with their home country, so they call themselves "expatriates" and expect others to do so too.
People from poorer countries don't have that luxury. They are defined by people in their new home country, so they are called "immigrants". Association with their country of origin is highlighted as a sign of unworthiness.
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@fabio I am aware of the concern you expressed.
People from richer countries living in poorer countries often have the luxury of defining themselves by their relationship with their home country, so they call themselves "expatriates" and expect others to do so too.
People from poorer countries don't have that luxury. They are defined by people in their new home country, so they are called "immigrants". Association with their country of origin is highlighted as a sign of unworthiness.
@fabio in this poll, I am specifically talking about the relationship with the country of origin. We are not talking about how people are viewed and defined in their country of residence.
There are other terms, like diaspora, used for this kind of population.
So, I'm OK with using "expatriate". It represents an unfair power dynamic in some situations, but not this one.
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@fabio say "emigrant" then. If you're living outside of Brazil, you're not an immigrant to Brazil.
@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
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@evan I like how Germany does things. Not only can Germans who live abroad vote, European (non-German) citizens can also vote in Germany for local parliaments. They can also vote in the European Parliament elections.
I would love it if non-European citizens living in Germany had the same possibility. I also think it would be good if they could vote at state level.
@heluecht @evan The rules are consistent across the EU with respect to EU citizens' voting in other EU countries for MEP elections; with the added wrinkle that you can vote for a candidate in your country of residence or in your home country, but not both 😊
Local and national election rules are much more of a mixed bag although it's common for EU citizens to at least be given local election (county/land/etc.) privileges.
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place).
A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
I worked in other countries and adopted the expat label, without thinking, frankly just because everyone else was using it.
After some reflection I think that calling myself a "guest worker" was more appropriate. So that is whatI started using toward the end.
Same idea but a bit less formal than "temporary foreign worker".
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@fabio I intentionally chose "expatriate" as an accurate and clear term for describing citizens who live outside their nation of citizenship.
"Expatriate" and "emigrant" are almost synonyms, but "emigrant" is less well known and suggests the immediate aftermath of leaving.
I considered "overseas citizens", "voters abroad", and other terms, but I settled on expatriate because it's clear and accurate.
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@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place).
A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
@mayintoronto @evan @fabio Just chiming in that I also agree that expat is a bad word and you should consider not using it.
I call myself an immigrant from Brazil. People call themseves immigrants from a country, the government refers to us refers to us as immigrants.
We’re not expats.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
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I worked in other countries and adopted the expat label, without thinking, frankly just because everyone else was using it.
After some reflection I think that calling myself a "guest worker" was more appropriate. So that is whatI started using toward the end.
Same idea but a bit less formal than "temporary foreign worker".
@RuthODay2 For context, the Temporary Foreign Worker program here in Canada is a highly problematic one, where workers are brought in with the right to abode tied to your employer and there's no path to permanent residence.
UN Special Rapporteur dubbed it: a "Breeding Ground’ for Contemporary Forms of Slavery
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/un-report-abuse-temporary-foreign-workers-canada-1.7293495I brought it up because Evan and Fabio are also in Canada.
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@evan
I'm a kiwi (from Aotearoa New Zealand) living in Sweden.I am not an expat, or expatriate citizen. I'm a migrant, something other white folk get upset about when I say "yes, I'm just another migrant over here", when they don't think I count because I'm white, and therefore the right kind.
Expat is just another colonial term.
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@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place).
A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
@mayintoronto @fabio Great, you should definitely make that poll!
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@mayintoronto @evan @fabio Just chiming in that I also agree that expat is a bad word and you should consider not using it.
I call myself an immigrant from Brazil. People call themseves immigrants from a country, the government refers to us refers to us as immigrants.
We’re not expats.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
@renata @mayintoronto @fabio Expatriate is a problem in a context, and I am not using it in that context.
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
@mayintoronto @fabio In Jamaica, people who are working overseas are called "Jamaicans abroad". There's also a slang term, "yardie".
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@renata @mayintoronto @fabio Expatriate is a problem in a context, and I am not using it in that context.
@evan @renata @mayintoronto For the record, I know. It wasn’t my intention to cause any drama and I enjoy the polls a lot.
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@mayintoronto @fabio Great, you should definitely make that poll!
@evan I'm asking you to reconsider your position on the term "expatriate", and to perhaps refrain from using it in this context in the future.
I don't care about the poll itself, since I know that editing is not an option.
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
@mayintoronto @fabio In Canada, some people who work and live abroad are called "Canadians abroad":
https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/living-abroad
I also like "snowbirds" for the very specific set of people who live abroad only during the winter.
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@mayintoronto @fabio In Canada, some people who work and live abroad are called "Canadians abroad":
https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/living-abroad
I also like "snowbirds" for the very specific set of people who live abroad only during the winter.
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@mayintoronto @fabio Duly noted!
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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Stasera, non perdete #ReportRai3!
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@jb so, should we fix this, or is it better to leave it how it is?
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@gian_d_gian la piscina di Milano, quella in Piazzale Loreto?
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@antanicus non si può vivere così
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@emmecola Nel senso che su Mastodon - non avendo appunto un algoritmo - se qualcuno posta 10 post è possibile che qualcun altro li veda tutti uno dopo l'altro.
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Ho passato anni brutti in un passato abbastanza recente. Ora però va decisamente molto meglio.
Un po' lo devo anche a voi. Questa è una bella comunità.
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Pare che non sia neanche sicuro al 100% che avesse una pistola con sé. Quella mostrata da Trump è in dotazione anche ai corpi di Polizia e all'ICE.
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A scanso di equivoci sogno di trovarmi in una piscina e vedere dal basso mr. ciuffetto che fa un elegante tuffo vestito dal trampolino di 5 metri :-)
