Another small victory today.'nA salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now".
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@stefano Congratulations, very well done!
Where you notably ahead of the sales person regarding the clients trust by way of earlier collaborations or where your arguments simply _that_ good or both? ;)
It would be really interesting to know the specifics of such a real world example of a FOSS-powered E-Mail suite. Which software packages on what servers? Which software is going to be used in what fashion by the users?@frikkelgard @stefano I can’t speak for @stefano but from my experience:
Everyone has had enough experience now with 365 to have been burned by it. Things randomly not working, no one to contact when they aren’t. Yes MSFT has support, no they wont help you.
Hilariously, I imagine this is part of the pitch for Google Workspace. But they have the same issue. Clients know that unless you’re a Fortune 500 company Google/Amazon/MSFT dont give a shit about you.
Businesses realise that paying a little extra to get a real person on the phone who can meaningfully help **now** is worth it, especially if you have a track record of doing so.
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano Good, you won a battle, but the war is still here to stay. Here, we (all people with the same ideas about) lost the battle in our national research institution. The prospect is that those monopolies will start to accept email only from qualified/registered peers, citing spam as the excuse, not too far in the future.
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano Good for you!
I just lost that battle - we are moving from onprem Exchange to 365 because the CEO wants all those shiny cloud integrations for their calendar. -
undefined Oblomov ha condiviso questa discussione
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@doti the Google seller, of course!
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@stefano Congratulations, very well done!
Where you notably ahead of the sales person regarding the clients trust by way of earlier collaborations or where your arguments simply _that_ good or both? ;)
It would be really interesting to know the specifics of such a real world example of a FOSS-powered E-Mail suite. Which software packages on what servers? Which software is going to be used in what fashion by the users?@frikkelgard I've been working with this client for years, so they trust me. I explained why this isn't the best choice for them: they're quite careful with their data (using Nextcloud, etc) so why keep their e-mails (with their contracts, agreements, etc) on someone else's servers?
They want OpenBSD: they have some VPN entrypoints and were positively surprised when the recent ssh security issues didn't affect the OS. So they want more OpenBSD 🙂
The setup will be based on OpenSMTPD and Dovecot, spamd or rspamd (the latter will probably be better for their task). Nextcloud will continue to serve them for calendars/contacts, but I'd like to show them SoGO, too. -
undefined Stefano Marinelli ha condiviso questa discussione
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@stefano how does one do that nowadays ? I feel like it used to be possible to do that back in the day … but I thought it was well nigh impossible nowadays to avoid email going into some black hole if not on some well known service? And i am a nerd! Lol. Is there a good write up anywhere ?
@fodwyer There's the "Run your own Mail Server" by @mwl and it's covering all the aspects.
I've written something here: https://it-notes.dragas.net/2024/03/08/make-your-own-email-server-freebsd-opensmptd-rspamd-dovecot-part1/This will give you a working and reliable mail server but be sure to have a clean IP address.
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@stefano there is even an open source exchange-like server. Will you propose that or a more standard solution with postfix, imap etc?
@gunstick I'll propose a standard solution but with OpenSMTPD, dovecot (or cyrus imap), etc.
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@CyReVolt @orcanize I've been doing this for more than 20 years, so I can manage it. If you have the right software, trained in the right way, the right records and a clean IP, everything will be fine. Occasional false positives/negatives will still occur, but I've seen Google mailboxes' emails marked as spam by other Google accounts - so...
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presenting technically correct information, without a financial gain bias, isn't guaranteed to work every time but it's definitely worth trying every time. sometimes, the right thing happens.
@paul_ipv6 exactly. Here, there is also financial gain so they're happy^2.
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@CyReVolt @stefano This is the kind of info a beginner like me needs to understand about email servers and OpenBSD. Could you comment on completeness and correctness of this guide?
https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/12aydcc/beginners_guide_to_simple_selfhosted_email_on/
@MHowell @CyReVolt that's a good guide. I've also written something about it: https://it-notes.dragas.net/2024/03/08/make-your-own-email-server-freebsd-opensmptd-rspamd-dovecot-part1/
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@stefano tell me you were cheering with an espresso cup in the hand, equivalent of "dropping mic" for the nerds :)
@omar oh, I did 😆
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@stefano Good, you won a battle, but the war is still here to stay. Here, we (all people with the same ideas about) lost the battle in our national research institution. The prospect is that those monopolies will start to accept email only from qualified/registered peers, citing spam as the excuse, not too far in the future.
@gisgeek unfortunately, this will likely happen. "Security reasons" is the best way to close their own systems. Even if most of the spam I'm receiving is from legit Google or MS accounts as rspamd is filtering the others out.
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@stefano Good for you!
I just lost that battle - we are moving from onprem Exchange to 365 because the CEO wants all those shiny cloud integrations for their calendar.@thechris I know what it means 😔
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano@bsd.cafe not so small victory I think!
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@stefano@bsd.cafe not so small victory I think!
@oldsysops exactly. every single bit counts.
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano
"Holds all the cards?"
U should have told him: "Yes True, but only if we don't know how to self host and rely on a corporate selling pitches to decide what's good for us" -
@stefano
"Holds all the cards?"
U should have told him: "Yes True, but only if we don't know how to self host and rely on a corporate selling pitches to decide what's good for us"@vivekanandanks It's roughly what I said, but in an extremely subtle way. The client understood it perfectly, the salesperson did not.
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano ah, the dreaded “real world” which has its wars of “running”:/(
Congrats
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@stefano ah, the dreaded “real world” which has its wars of “running”:/(
Congrats
@mms thank you. Yes, exactly. The "real world"
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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A third question (actually, I think two questions) was about protocols for democratic participation in coops. We have occasionally used polls for getting the temperature of the membership on CoSocialCa, and I know that social.coop uses loom.io's features for voting on some issues. But at least with CoSocial, we haven't invested too much time or effort into cryptographic, anonymising voting systems. We get most of our voting done by show of hands!
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@matz
Anch'io
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Sono molto tentata, per fare un esperimento, di sponsorizzare uno stato whatsapp e vedere cosa succede, ma non ho molta voglia di dare soldi a zio mark.
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Another question was why the links I gave for national cooperative organisations to help with forming a cooperative did not have information about forming Fediverse coops. I think there needs to be more information about forming Fediverse coops, and I think that's something we want to do at the SWF.
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@Lucatermite @filippodb @spettacoli mi sa che passarono di qua https://mastodon.uno/@fucinafibonacci/114589575425896045
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The first was, everybody knows you for ActivityPub, and where was the part about ActivityPub in this talk? It's a fair question! But I have more involvement in the Fediverse than just in the protocol; in my role at SWF I also get involved in the social and economic layer of the Fediverse. The title of the talk was "Cooperative Social Networks", though, so I don't feel like I was unclear about the topic of the conversation.
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@francina1909 @ro e comunque anche certe pagine satiriche negli ultimi giorni hanno subito una deriva inaccettabile. Sta uscendo tutta lammrda possibile dal profondo di tutti.
