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  4. So the good thing about Linux distros switching to Wayland long before Wayland is remotely ready is that contact with real-world users will make the "pain points" visible so they can be fixed.

So the good thing about Linux distros switching to Wayland long before Wayland is remotely ready is that contact with real-world users will make the "pain points" visible so they can be fixed.

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  • Joeundefined Joe

    @fluffy @mcc Yes, X evolved into a hopeless buggy and insecure piece of crap that no number of extensions could fix and Wayland was the way forward. But it is common to find that the second system that is supposed to solve everything has its own issues.

    mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
    mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
    mcc
    wrote last edited by
    #20

    @not2b @fluffy however wayland development is also largely driven by extensions

    fluffy 💜undefined 1 Reply Last reply
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    • mccundefined mcc

      @not2b @fluffy however wayland development is also largely driven by extensions

      fluffy 💜undefined This user is from outside of this forum
      fluffy 💜undefined This user is from outside of this forum
      fluffy 💜
      wrote last edited by
      #21

      @mcc @not2b I feel like it's a bit different when you don't have to worry about network transparency or multiple vendors. Also if I understand correctly (I probably don't), Wayland extensions are more like API suites that are incrementally being supported for everything.

      mccundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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      • fluffy 💜undefined fluffy 💜

        @mcc @not2b I feel like it's a bit different when you don't have to worry about network transparency or multiple vendors. Also if I understand correctly (I probably don't), Wayland extensions are more like API suites that are incrementally being supported for everything.

        mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
        mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
        mcc
        wrote last edited by
        #22

        @fluffy @not2b what is the difference between "multiple vendors" and "every DE now ships its own compositor"?

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        • aevaundefined aeva

          @gsuberland @mcc they get reported, they just get fixed at a glacial pace, if they gets fixed at all.

          Matthew Millerundefined This user is from outside of this forum
          Matthew Millerundefined This user is from outside of this forum
          Matthew Miller
          wrote last edited by
          #23

          @aeva @gsuberland @mcc

          It's funny because it's true.

          By which I mean: there are not, actually, any magical infinite funds to support desktop Linux, because that has no commercial value whatsoever, but it's 100% free to shit on people who are volunteering their time to try to make things better as best they can. You can earn valuable Mastodon Snark Points for it, which you can cash in for fuck all in actually making things better.

          Or you could, you know, not so that.

          mccundefined aevaundefined 2 Replies Last reply
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          • Matthew Millerundefined Matthew Miller

            @aeva @gsuberland @mcc

            It's funny because it's true.

            By which I mean: there are not, actually, any magical infinite funds to support desktop Linux, because that has no commercial value whatsoever, but it's 100% free to shit on people who are volunteering their time to try to make things better as best they can. You can earn valuable Mastodon Snark Points for it, which you can cash in for fuck all in actually making things better.

            Or you could, you know, not so that.

            mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
            mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
            mcc
            wrote last edited by
            #24

            @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland Fuck off. We need our computers to work and currently they do not. The distros made a decision which brought our computers from a working to a nonworking state. That was the right decision from the project's perspective but it causes problems for the users and the projects knew that when they made the decision. If someone wants me to contribute code to make things better I can potentially do that but if you want me to pretend to be happy I will not

            Matthew Millerundefined Janne Morenundefined 2 Replies Last reply
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            • Matthew Millerundefined Matthew Miller

              @aeva @gsuberland @mcc

              It's funny because it's true.

              By which I mean: there are not, actually, any magical infinite funds to support desktop Linux, because that has no commercial value whatsoever, but it's 100% free to shit on people who are volunteering their time to try to make things better as best they can. You can earn valuable Mastodon Snark Points for it, which you can cash in for fuck all in actually making things better.

              Or you could, you know, not so that.

              aevaundefined This user is from outside of this forum
              aevaundefined This user is from outside of this forum
              aeva
              wrote last edited by
              #25

              @mattdm @gsuberland @mcc buddy we are talking about problems we're actively experiencing that we can't make any headway on and you are the one who is kicking people while they're down

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              • mccundefined mcc

                @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland Fuck off. We need our computers to work and currently they do not. The distros made a decision which brought our computers from a working to a nonworking state. That was the right decision from the project's perspective but it causes problems for the users and the projects knew that when they made the decision. If someone wants me to contribute code to make things better I can potentially do that but if you want me to pretend to be happy I will not

                Matthew Millerundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                Matthew Millerundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                Matthew Miller
                wrote last edited by
                #26

                @mcc @aeva @gsuberland

                The people who sell computers don't have a great incentive to make them "work". They just need to Windows well enough. If you want that, that's for sale. If you don't, well, there's no commercial interest in anything else. So,we have to do what we can. The people working on it know _to the breaking point of their souls_ that it isn't perfect.

                mccundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                • Matthew Millerundefined Matthew Miller

                  @mcc @aeva @gsuberland

                  The people who sell computers don't have a great incentive to make them "work". They just need to Windows well enough. If you want that, that's for sale. If you don't, well, there's no commercial interest in anything else. So,we have to do what we can. The people working on it know _to the breaking point of their souls_ that it isn't perfect.

                  mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                  mccundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                  mcc
                  wrote last edited by
                  #27

                  @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland In fact the computer I purchased specifically advertised support for Ubuntu Linux. That was one of the reasons I purchased it.

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                  • mccundefined mcc

                    @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland Fuck off. We need our computers to work and currently they do not. The distros made a decision which brought our computers from a working to a nonworking state. That was the right decision from the project's perspective but it causes problems for the users and the projects knew that when they made the decision. If someone wants me to contribute code to make things better I can potentially do that but if you want me to pretend to be happy I will not

                    Janne Morenundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                    Janne Morenundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                    Janne Moren
                    wrote last edited by
                    #28

                    @mcc @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland
                    What was the alternative though? The Xorg maintainers were saying that nope, they're not going to continue developing it any longer. What should distros have done?

                    Oblomovundefined 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • Janne Morenundefined Janne Moren

                      @mcc @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland
                      What was the alternative though? The Xorg maintainers were saying that nope, they're not going to continue developing it any longer. What should distros have done?

                      Oblomovundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                      Oblomovundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                      Oblomov
                      wrote last edited by
                      #29

                      @jannem @mcc @mattdm @aeva @gsuberland my alternative so far has been simply to stick with X sessions because any of the issues X has I've already worked around and while it's not as nice at it could be at least I can get my work done and the behavior has been predictable for 10+years now that the horde of CADT developers have moved to Wayland. But I understand that not everybody has the luxury to make the choices I've made.

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                      • aevaundefined aeva

                        @mcc one thing i noticed while trying to find a solution to my most recent injury is there's been bugs open for it for *years*

                        gkrnoursundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                        gkrnoursundefined This user is from outside of this forum
                        gkrnours
                        wrote last edited by
                        #30

                        @aeva @mcc I'm pretty sure awesomewm was using wayland and I was using it 10 to 15 years ago. It's wild to me I am now hearing about major DE switchint to it, dropping X11 support and lot of big issue like "wayland have zero standard for screencapture". I do screenshot every week, if not every day. Sharing your screen in visioconference is like a major need at dayjob.

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                        So the good thing about Linux distros switching to Wayland long before Wayland is remotely ready is that contact with real-world users will make the "pain points" visible so they can be fixed.

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