Something I want to make clear:
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@sarahjamielewis That assumes that blocking an app is the desired thing, rather than age-gating some of the content (for example, consider a video streaming client that has age restrictions. These are currently implemented in a very ad-hoc way).
Sure, but blocking achieves the goal of creating market conditions such that applications are encouraged to support different age profiles / content preferences without mandating an API call or obligate developers into implied knowledge.
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@dalias Distros that are large enough to have a meaningful answer to the question "does there exist in a reasonable nexus under which we must assume liability under Californian or Coloradan state law (/however many other jurisdiction this legislation eventually pollutes into)"
@sarahjamielewis I would think it would largely be "distros aiming to be included preinstalled on consumer devices" because commerce is the only way they're going to get away with enforcing such a regulation. Otherwise it comes down to a "forced speech" issue.
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@sarahjamielewis I would think it would largely be "distros aiming to be included preinstalled on consumer devices" because commerce is the only way they're going to get away with enforcing such a regulation. Otherwise it comes down to a "forced speech" issue.
@dalias soliciting donations/ accepting funding/sponsorship / hosting conferences is also commercial activity.
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@dalias soliciting donations/ accepting funding/sponsorship / hosting conferences is also commercial activity.
@sarahjamielewis The power to regulate commercial activity itself and the ability to regulate and force speech by a party in materials they publish just because they also engage in commercial activity (which any person or org does) are radically different powers.
I think most of us are probably ok with the former but not the latter, and, if we still had rule of law here, US Constitutional law would agree.
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Again to really hit the nail on the head since I am getting some replies about "how will they enforce this"
The age verification part is no enforceable, just enter 1/1/1970 as a birthdate.
The requirements on operating systems and developers to implement and use the functionality is very much enforceable against any developers/maintainers who reside in impacted states, and any projects who have significant ties to entities in those states (think: grants/funds/donors/conferences/offices)
This isnt meant as an actionable suggestion but abolishing capitalism and the state would solve this. In the meantime diy distros and install scripts should be safe if I'm interpreting the bill correctly, and those that want to break the law should consider underground development on Tor/I2P
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The way I expect this to go down is that Android/iOS/etc. will roll out an age bracket API call in the near future and tie that API call to some set of foundational permissions (e.g. internet access / file access / etc) - they have done this in the past, notably for API deprecation.
A minimally invasive implementation of this will likely only restrict apps running if the OS itself is being run in a kids-mode .
(But that isn't what the laws actually require)
@sarahjamielewis apple shipped this in iOS 26 just fyi. So we don’t have to speculate, you’re already using it right now (if you have an iPhone)
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@QuarkMaker There are plenty of linux distros that maintained by people / companies subject to California or Colorado state law and many more that could be reasonably assumed to have such a nexus (office/conference hosting/donations/funding/grants etc.)
@sarahjamielewis Yeah, I hadn't even thought about the financial and logistical nexus that California companies are. Thank you for bringing up that point.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@sarahjamielewis/116161459299855467
Something I want to make clear:
The "age verification" bit of the CA/CO laws are not the bit I care about i.e. a law that requires an operating systems to implement some kind of parental control feature is...whatever.
The bits I care about are the obligations on developers to call APIs and then that invocation being taken as evidence of knowledge.
Specifically, I think a -legal- requirement to:
- make any kind of call is an attack on speech
- know a users age (bracket) is a privacy violation@sarahjamielewis What I would be interested in is that do those laws apply to embedded software that has an OS, and if they are, to what extent?
Are scientific calculators suddenly required to have an age verification API? Are radars?
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@sarahjamielewis What I would be interested in is that do those laws apply to embedded software that has an OS, and if they are, to what extent?
Are scientific calculators suddenly required to have an age verification API? Are radars?
But well, if they are, maybe there's accurate use case for HTTP status response 418.
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It's a very, very short jump from "the law requires you to call this API to know a users age" to "the law requires you to call this API to backdoor the rng"
The precedent of the former makes me very uneasy.
I cannot in good conscious support software on any platform subject to a jurisdiction that mandates such calls.
(I also think making the existence of parental controls settings on an OS as mandatory is also a little iffy, but in a less catastrophic way)
@sarahjamielewis the way you worded this made me think of that isn't source code considered a form of protected speech? In other words, can laws that force you to call certain API endpoints be a form of compelled speech by the government? I'm guessing I'm way off but it feels like it should follow along those lines.
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This isnt meant as an actionable suggestion but abolishing capitalism and the state would solve this. In the meantime diy distros and install scripts should be safe if I'm interpreting the bill correctly, and those that want to break the law should consider underground development on Tor/I2P
@ambiguous_yelp @sarahjamielewis
>underground development on Tor/I2P
underrated suggestion -
@sarahjamielewis the way you worded this made me think of that isn't source code considered a form of protected speech? In other words, can laws that force you to call certain API endpoints be a form of compelled speech by the government? I'm guessing I'm way off but it feels like it should follow along those lines.
@gibwar @sarahjamielewis I think it isn't in the US since Tornado Cash was sanctioned.
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@sarahjamielewis the way you worded this made me think of that isn't source code considered a form of protected speech? In other words, can laws that force you to call certain API endpoints be a form of compelled speech by the government? I'm guessing I'm way off but it feels like it should follow along those lines.
source code is at least expression in most jurisdictions (and certainly the act of writing it would fall under speech - so it can't be compelled)
Where things are murky is in the packaging and distribution of software, especially binary formats, since there are other laws that govern e.g. malware/spam/circumvention/reveng/dual purpose tech which start to eat away at the fringes.
And any commercial adjacent activity (payment/support/donations/conferences) etc. also complicate matters.
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source code is at least expression in most jurisdictions (and certainly the act of writing it would fall under speech - so it can't be compelled)
Where things are murky is in the packaging and distribution of software, especially binary formats, since there are other laws that govern e.g. malware/spam/circumvention/reveng/dual purpose tech which start to eat away at the fringes.
And any commercial adjacent activity (payment/support/donations/conferences) etc. also complicate matters.
Basically, you cannot be compelled to build software in a free society.
But the government can certainly say "if you want to make a living from software, you are required to do X/Y/Z and not do A/B/C" like they do with many other areas.
Where software is somewhat unique is the large amount of volunteer/open projects sit on the blurred line in between personal and commercial. Laws like this very much endanger that unique culture.
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@PaoloParti Interessante, è la stessa cosa che succede a me.. anche se io ho un OS diverso
