@lxo @oblomov @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

The fact that Mastodon only cares about interop when it's the underdog shows the shitty ethos of its leadership and developers.

It is about about power AND it is about numbers AND —ESPECIALLY for Mastodon— it is about MONEY. Because if people move to other platforms Mastodon loses users, loses control, and its PAID developers lose their income stream from donations.

7/n

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

So you see minor Fediverse platforms working on improving interoperability, improving data and profile portability, giving users control to freely move between servers and platforms, and Mastodon NOT GIVING A SHIT and you still go to all these lengths to defend it, well, it says more about you than anything else.

8/8

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@oblomov @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

so i can't migrate my account to gotosocial?

oh wait i can

what the fuck are you on about

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

If you think the possibility to migrate accounts is what I'm talking about, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/nomadic-identity-for-the-fediverse/2101

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-ef61-portable-objects/3738

(etc)

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

You sound like a Google developer.

[lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br]

nobody cares

that's exactly the problem. users should be aware of the risks, and care about them, checking the developer's power over them.

we do whatever the fuck we want. we answer to no one

that's exactly the unchecked power I'm speaking of.

and yet you act like there is some sort of structure, obligations, checks and balances

with great power, comes great responsibility

if you extend your implementation recklessly, you undermine the very network you depend on to exist.

it kills the goose that lays golden eggs.

but if the developers don't see that, users who care about the network could and should help them see it.

this is anarchy. this is open source. no one owes you anything

this is true

that's why my argument is based on alignment of self interests

users want a working, interoperable network

mastodon wants users for influence and funding

mastodon has power over users because code is law, and most users don't control their servers

users check that power by making it clear that they care about the diverse network with interop

nobody owes you anything, but if they want something from you collectively, you collectively have some leverage

don't waste it, but use it intelligently, is what I'm asking, so that we have a healthier network even if mastodon developers don't care about the goose's health

this is community power dynamics with intelligent checks and balances in collective pursuit of self interests

CC: @oblomov@sociale.network @Jirikiha@raphus.social @macacator@mastodon.social @MyWoolyMastadon@toot.community @john@vyrse.social @engel@mastodon.social @everton137@vivaldi.net

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@oblomov @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

i don't care

no one fucking cares

people build things, and they work or not, and they are adapted or not

there's no obligations here. there's no heirarchy here. no one owes you, or me, or anyone else anything

welcome to open source. it's anarchy

and you act like you're in a board room meeting

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

anarchy has an ethos, and you are violating that ethos. That's not anarchy, that's the right-wing libertarian “might makes right” attitude that is driving us to fascism in real world politics. And you're supporting that here. Congratulations.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@oblomov @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

oh yeah

as i explain to you open source, and you push back as if it's a hierarchy with obligations, that means *i* am the corporate goon here

that makes perfect sense

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

“Google Chrome is open source”

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@lxo @oblomov @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

there's no power!

open source

anarchy

people build whatever

people use whatever

whatever happens, happens

no chain of command, no network of obligations

and you continue to insist you have a position to stand on that says "somebody owes me"

they don't owe you shit. no one owes me shit. no one owes anyone shit

no one can tell you what to do. no one can tell me what to do

please understand where you are

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@oblomov @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

ok i want you to imagine that i'm not ben royce. i'm elon musk in a rubber mask

whatever you need to tell yourself because i present to you the horrible idea that causes pain in your mind that there are no system of obligations in open source

whatever you need to tell yourself about my malicious demonic intentions

it's a farce

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

I don't give a rat's ass about who you are. I'm just pointing out what your argument implies. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@oblomov @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

right

i understand

when i try to explaint o your there are no obligations in open source that obviously means i am a corporate goon

you got it! 👍

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

again, if you don't like the ethical implication of your position, that's your problem, not mine.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@oblomov @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

you don't have a problem with me oblomov

you have a problem with reality

you reject reality, not me

you're shooting the messenger

if it makes you feel better, shoot away, i don't care

reality doesn't change though

[lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br]

dude, wake up

nobody owes you or me

but they have interests in us

so we have leverage

it's stupid to not use it to keep this network that we like healthier, if the developers don't care about the network, but care about getting users

please understand where you are, as you say

or remain stubborn and miss opportunities to actually defend what you evidently enjoy

CC: @oblomov@sociale.network @Jirikiha@raphus.social @macacator@mastodon.social @MyWoolyMastadon@toot.community @john@vyrse.social @engel@mastodon.social @everton137@vivaldi.net

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

I strive for a better world rather than reveling in its shit.

[benroyce@mastodon.social]

@lxo @oblomov @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

alexandre:

enjoy advocating for interop with a dead protocol

killed by tech improvement for better features

no sorry, killed just because mastodon is unrelenting evil

go for it

you have massive leverage, and a completely airtight rationale for doing so

[oblomov@sociale.network]

@benroyce @lxo @Jirikiha @macacator @MyWoolyMastadon @john @engel @everton137

I like how you completely missed the point and keep focusing on the ostatus thing because that's really the only thing you can do in this discussion.