Another small victory today.'nA salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now".
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@stefano yeah but the flip side is managing that server and the spam blocking and all the other crap that comes with it
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano In the meantime, the provider I've been paying to host my email just moved to Office365 and it took me many hours to get back into my email. *sigh*
I wish it were easy to find a decent self-sovereign provider for personal use. 🥺 -
Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
presenting technically correct information, without a financial gain bias, isn't guaranteed to work every time but it's definitely worth trying every time. sometimes, the right thing happens.
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@stefano In the meantime, the provider I've been paying to host my email just moved to Office365 and it took me many hours to get back into my email. *sigh*
I wish it were easy to find a decent self-sovereign provider for personal use. 🥺@CyReVolt @stefano This is the kind of info a beginner like me needs to understand about email servers and OpenBSD. Could you comment on completeness and correctness of this guide?
https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/12aydcc/beginners_guide_to_simple_selfhosted_email_on/
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
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@stefano how does one do that nowadays ? I feel like it used to be possible to do that back in the day … but I thought it was well nigh impossible nowadays to avoid email going into some black hole if not on some well known service? And i am a nerd! Lol. Is there a good write up anywhere ?
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano
Well, having Google "as a backup" wouldn't be so bad, if it's possible to be sanely configured. But putting encrypted snapshot of mail data on Google or any other clowd service would be easier "as a backup for time in disaster".The sales person should have proposed such a use-cases.
And I'm old enough to retrieve my emails into local using POP3, preferred over IMAP. (gmail "service" doesn't seem to like it, though.)
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@stefano Congratulations, very well done!
Where you notably ahead of the sales person regarding the clients trust by way of earlier collaborations or where your arguments simply _that_ good or both? ;)
It would be really interesting to know the specifics of such a real world example of a FOSS-powered E-Mail suite. Which software packages on what servers? Which software is going to be used in what fashion by the users?@frikkelgard @stefano I can’t speak for @stefano but from my experience:
Everyone has had enough experience now with 365 to have been burned by it. Things randomly not working, no one to contact when they aren’t. Yes MSFT has support, no they wont help you.
Hilariously, I imagine this is part of the pitch for Google Workspace. But they have the same issue. Clients know that unless you’re a Fortune 500 company Google/Amazon/MSFT dont give a shit about you.
Businesses realise that paying a little extra to get a real person on the phone who can meaningfully help **now** is worth it, especially if you have a track record of doing so.
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano Good, you won a battle, but the war is still here to stay. Here, we (all people with the same ideas about) lost the battle in our national research institution. The prospect is that those monopolies will start to accept email only from qualified/registered peers, citing spam as the excuse, not too far in the future.
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Another small victory today.
A salesperson had almost convinced a client to move their email from 365 to Google because "they hold all the cards now". I stepped in and suggested they keep their email on servers that they control instead. The salesperson almost mocked me, treating me like a "nerd" who doesn't understand how the world works.
I was happy to be a nerd, if necessary, to explain the pros and cons of the solution to the client.
The result? The salesperson was politely thanked and "sent home", and I'm now evaluating some details of the new mail server, which, by the client's choice, will be based on OpenBSD.Because people need explanations, not brochures.
@stefano Good for you!
I just lost that battle - we are moving from onprem Exchange to 365 because the CEO wants all those shiny cloud integrations for their calendar. -
undefined oblomov@sociale.network shared this topic on
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@stefano ... google holds all the cards? says who lol
@doti the Google seller, of course!
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@stefano Congratulations, very well done!
Where you notably ahead of the sales person regarding the clients trust by way of earlier collaborations or where your arguments simply _that_ good or both? ;)
It would be really interesting to know the specifics of such a real world example of a FOSS-powered E-Mail suite. Which software packages on what servers? Which software is going to be used in what fashion by the users?@frikkelgard I've been working with this client for years, so they trust me. I explained why this isn't the best choice for them: they're quite careful with their data (using Nextcloud, etc) so why keep their e-mails (with their contracts, agreements, etc) on someone else's servers?
They want OpenBSD: they have some VPN entrypoints and were positively surprised when the recent ssh security issues didn't affect the OS. So they want more OpenBSD 🙂
The setup will be based on OpenSMTPD and Dovecot, spamd or rspamd (the latter will probably be better for their task). Nextcloud will continue to serve them for calendars/contacts, but I'd like to show them SoGO, too. -
undefined stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe shared this topic on
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@stefano how does one do that nowadays ? I feel like it used to be possible to do that back in the day … but I thought it was well nigh impossible nowadays to avoid email going into some black hole if not on some well known service? And i am a nerd! Lol. Is there a good write up anywhere ?
@fodwyer There's the "Run your own Mail Server" by @mwl and it's covering all the aspects.
I've written something here: https://it-notes.dragas.net/2024/03/08/make-your-own-email-server-freebsd-opensmptd-rspamd-dovecot-part1/This will give you a working and reliable mail server but be sure to have a clean IP address.
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@stefano there is even an open source exchange-like server. Will you propose that or a more standard solution with postfix, imap etc?
@gunstick I'll propose a standard solution but with OpenSMTPD, dovecot (or cyrus imap), etc.
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@CyReVolt @orcanize I've been doing this for more than 20 years, so I can manage it. If you have the right software, trained in the right way, the right records and a clean IP, everything will be fine. Occasional false positives/negatives will still occur, but I've seen Google mailboxes' emails marked as spam by other Google accounts - so...
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presenting technically correct information, without a financial gain bias, isn't guaranteed to work every time but it's definitely worth trying every time. sometimes, the right thing happens.
@paul_ipv6 exactly. Here, there is also financial gain so they're happy^2.
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@CyReVolt @stefano This is the kind of info a beginner like me needs to understand about email servers and OpenBSD. Could you comment on completeness and correctness of this guide?
https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/12aydcc/beginners_guide_to_simple_selfhosted_email_on/
@MHowell @CyReVolt that's a good guide. I've also written something about it: https://it-notes.dragas.net/2024/03/08/make-your-own-email-server-freebsd-opensmptd-rspamd-dovecot-part1/
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This post is deleted!
@omar oh, I did 😆
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@stefano Good, you won a battle, but the war is still here to stay. Here, we (all people with the same ideas about) lost the battle in our national research institution. The prospect is that those monopolies will start to accept email only from qualified/registered peers, citing spam as the excuse, not too far in the future.
@gisgeek unfortunately, this will likely happen. "Security reasons" is the best way to close their own systems. Even if most of the spam I'm receiving is from legit Google or MS accounts as rspamd is filtering the others out.
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"Un mondo migliore
lo costruiscono le persone
che migliorano
prima se stesse."Marie Curie
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They got Rust for Windows 95? RETVRN https://github.com/rust9x/rust/wiki
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@quephird oh wow that's very detailed :O
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the stand has a sort of "lavender town theme played an out of tune mandolin and they don't really remember the notes" sort of vibe which is kinda neat though
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@mcc it is probably for the best lol
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the patch is a failure though because it starts off sounding somewhere between "weird" and "kind of awful" and morphs into "fairly awful" whereas my intent was it would start off sounding pleasant and morph into unbearable. in retrospect, feeding solid noise into a resonator doesn't result in a self destructing patch. I'll probably revisit the idea another time
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the idea behind the patch was it starts with a pulse generator that generates a single frame pulse every few seconds, and that gets written into a tape loop such that the tape loop starts empty and eventually gradually turns into a wall of static. this is fed into another chain of more different tape loops which approximate resonators and echo. the patch is named "for as long as you can stand it"
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