Is the Risorgimento an important part of Canadian history?
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Is the Risorgimento an important part of Canadian history?
@evan I'd love to understand the inspiration for the question!
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@evan I'd love to understand the inspiration for the question!
@dneary I'll go through it tomorrow!
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Is the Risorgimento an important part of Canadian history?
Thanks, all. I've been thinking a lot about civic nationalism. It's the idea of a nation that people adhere to ideas and institutions, rather than forming a nation around an ethnic group.
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Thanks, all. I've been thinking a lot about civic nationalism. It's the idea of a nation that people adhere to ideas and institutions, rather than forming a nation around an ethnic group.
It's closely tied to multiculturalism.
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It's closely tied to multiculturalism.
Here in Canada, our national framework is based on the imperial aims of two founding cultures, the English and the French, one of which defeated the other but kept it on as a junior partner. Together they dealt with, and then controlled, the indigenous peoples who lived here first. They strategically invited workers from Europe, South and East Asia, North Africa and the West Indies to join them. Over time, the occupation relationship with indigenous people unravelled and a new one is being made.
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Here in Canada, our national framework is based on the imperial aims of two founding cultures, the English and the French, one of which defeated the other but kept it on as a junior partner. Together they dealt with, and then controlled, the indigenous peoples who lived here first. They strategically invited workers from Europe, South and East Asia, North Africa and the West Indies to join them. Over time, the occupation relationship with indigenous people unravelled and a new one is being made.
@evan Is this a bit?
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Here in Canada, our national framework is based on the imperial aims of two founding cultures, the English and the French, one of which defeated the other but kept it on as a junior partner. Together they dealt with, and then controlled, the indigenous peoples who lived here first. They strategically invited workers from Europe, South and East Asia, North Africa and the West Indies to join them. Over time, the occupation relationship with indigenous people unravelled and a new one is being made.
One tension in this framework is that all citizens in the nation are treated as equals, but all cultures are not. We have city festivals for Chinese holidays, sure, but that only emphasizes that the other 364 days of the year are for the norm of regular anglophone-francophone things. The other cultures are a treat, not a regular meal.
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@evan Is this a bit?
@soatok no. Why?
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One tension in this framework is that all citizens in the nation are treated as equals, but all cultures are not. We have city festivals for Chinese holidays, sure, but that only emphasizes that the other 364 days of the year are for the norm of regular anglophone-francophone things. The other cultures are a treat, not a regular meal.
There are so many problems with this cultural framework. First and foremost is our inability to find a just structure for inclusion and recognition of indigenous peoples. We've thankfully started a process of reconciliation, but nobody knows where it will end up.
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There are so many problems with this cultural framework. First and foremost is our inability to find a just structure for inclusion and recognition of indigenous peoples. We've thankfully started a process of reconciliation, but nobody knows where it will end up.
A second one is that the role of immigrant cultures is secondary and contingent. We were invited, and we are tolerated, and we are legally treated as almost equals. But that invitation can be rescinded if the founder cultures see a reason to or if they just get in a bad mood.
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@soatok no. Why?
@evan Using manager-speak euphemistically is kind of funny.
Unfortunately, results like this are less funny: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canada-residential-schools-unmarked-graves-indigenous-children-60-minutes-2022-02-06/
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A second one is that the role of immigrant cultures is secondary and contingent. We were invited, and we are tolerated, and we are legally treated as almost equals. But that invitation can be rescinded if the founder cultures see a reason to or if they just get in a bad mood.
I am interested in other frameworks; especially those that treat the promise of multiculturalism and civic nationalism seriously. Where Canada is the people and the cultures who are here, right now, treated equally. Where we retain the connections and through lines from origin cultures, and collectively own them. Instead of being an Anglo-French nation with Indian people in it, we could be an Indian nation, and a Chinese one, and a Haitian one.
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@evan Using manager-speak euphemistically is kind of funny.
Unfortunately, results like this are less funny: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/canada-residential-schools-unmarked-graves-indigenous-children-60-minutes-2022-02-06/
@soatok maybe you should read the rest of the thread.
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I am interested in other frameworks; especially those that treat the promise of multiculturalism and civic nationalism seriously. Where Canada is the people and the cultures who are here, right now, treated equally. Where we retain the connections and through lines from origin cultures, and collectively own them. Instead of being an Anglo-French nation with Indian people in it, we could be an Indian nation, and a Chinese one, and a Haitian one.
I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
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I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
About 2 million Canadians trace their ancestry back to Italy; that's about 5% of the population.
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About 2 million Canadians trace their ancestry back to Italy; that's about 5% of the population.
Italy's history in the 1800s is one of throwing off foreign occupation and uniting into one nation - the Risorgimento - that culminated in the 1860s. The irony is that a population boom and economic downturn directly related to the unifying wars led to a generation that could not find room in the nation their parents and grandparents had made for them. A flow of emigration to the Americas, including Canada, ensued.
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I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
@evan interesting thoughts, I've been thinking (and trying to write) about the same issue from an European angle, especially about the relationship between states and "nations". One thread that I want to explore further, especially for multiculturalism and immigrants/diaspora is the concept of Doikayt that the Jewish Bund advocated for. That might be a thread in your issues as well.
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Italy's history in the 1800s is one of throwing off foreign occupation and uniting into one nation - the Risorgimento - that culminated in the 1860s. The irony is that a population boom and economic downturn directly related to the unifying wars led to a generation that could not find room in the nation their parents and grandparents had made for them. A flow of emigration to the Americas, including Canada, ensued.
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Italy's history in the 1800s is one of throwing off foreign occupation and uniting into one nation - the Risorgimento - that culminated in the 1860s. The irony is that a population boom and economic downturn directly related to the unifying wars led to a generation that could not find room in the nation their parents and grandparents had made for them. A flow of emigration to the Americas, including Canada, ensued.
So, I am trying to hold an idea of Canada in my mind where the story of Italian Canadians (and West Indians and Maghrebi and Ukrainian and, and, and) is as foundational and collectively held as the story of the Great Peace and the Acadian expulsion or the national railroad. If there is a "we" here, as a Canadian, it's my story too. It feels strange and uncomfortable, which is why I started this poll. And, why, I think, it has so few responses. Anyway, I am Yes, but it's hard.
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I don't know how this other kind of framework works in practice. One part of it, I think, is recognizing that if everyone in Canada is "us", our history goes much farther back than Frobisher and Cartier. Our books trace the stream of history across the ocean back to England and France, but it includes what happened here for indigenous people going back to time immemorial, even when no English and French people were in sight. And it streams back to Kashmir and Guangdong and Jamaica and Italy.
@evan@cosocial.ca
It’s a fortunate coincidence that the whole topic started considering the role of Italian culture in Canadian history
That is because even now, what might look from the outside as a cohesive nation and culture, is still the patchwork of Italic cultures and languages often completely different from each other that existed before the unification, in such a way we still experience actual culture shocks when travelling from a region to another. I guess this kind of cultural framework is similar to many other nations, still I’d say the Italian one is quite prominent in its internal differences
And as other nations, it happened that cultural differences created tensions motivated by classism and internal racism, especially towards southern Italians, leading to the spread of the word “terrone” as an insult to describe them.
And lots of the prejudices that existed more than a century ago are still alive in the mind of a lot of Italians.
Now try to imagine the kind of tensions that exist now between Italians and immigrants’ cultures, in a country that sometimes doesn’t even feel like an actual country
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@nuintari me too!
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@macrumors/115967778543635230
Reclutant is the new attaccatevarcazzo.
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@mwl in a word: NO! 😆
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@mariellequinton the point is simple: Canada is the people who are here, Canadian history is our collective and individual stories, and Canadian culture is the things we say and make and do.
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@evan I think there's a lot we can learn from the structures in use in Rojava, which unfortunately is hard to find accurate, succinct information on. After some digging this report seems like one of the better run-downs in English https://web.archive.org/web/20211001172657/https://rojavainformationcenter.com/storage/2021/06/Beyond-the-frontlines-The-building-of-the-democratic-system-in-North-and-East-Syria-Report-Rojava-Information-Center-December-2019-Web-version.pdf
I think this model has a lot of promise and a lot we can learn, but would also need to be adapted. Just for example, the history of settler colonialism & white supremacy in Canada and the US IMO would demand more to address than just transplanting this council structure would do.
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@being @evan there is something here about poutine being invented in Canada, something like how hamburgers and hot dogs were effectively German but were transformed in USA (mostly by adding bread lol) into something uniquely Usonian. I don’t know anything about Canadian arepas, but surely there’s unique fillings or something that are uniquely Canadian?
