🔐 Every unencrypted email is readable by 10+ entities and stored forever.
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@nicfab I appreciate every attempt to make the web more secure by default.
What is your opinion on if I would state: Isn’t encrypted mail also stored forever and readable in the future? As e-mail lacks PFS…
I’m more concerned about that and things like headers being not encrypted and therefore, leaking meta data, than getting my keys to ppl.
If things must change it is probably SMTP that needs a successor with things like double ratchet session keys and key exchange parameters. And while we’re on it, probably some post quantum ability would fit the timeline we are in.
What do you think?
@lennybacon 3/6
And metadata exacerbates the issue: even with PGP/S/MIME, headers expose communication patterns, timestamps, and relationships that can be more revealing than the message content itself. WKD is pragmatic incrementalism: it solves the decades-old “chicken and egg” of key distribution, but it’s still polishing brass on the Titanic. Real progress requires a protocol redesign. -
@nicfab I appreciate every attempt to make the web more secure by default.
What is your opinion on if I would state: Isn’t encrypted mail also stored forever and readable in the future? As e-mail lacks PFS…
I’m more concerned about that and things like headers being not encrypted and therefore, leaking meta data, than getting my keys to ppl.
If things must change it is probably SMTP that needs a successor with things like double ratchet session keys and key exchange parameters. And while we’re on it, probably some post quantum ability would fit the timeline we are in.
What do you think?
@lennybacon 4/6
Possible directions include:
• MLS (Messaging Layer Security) for federated asynchronous messaging with PFS
• Post-quantum key exchange (already in TLS 1.3 trials)
• Encrypted headers and padding to mitigate traffic analysis
• Ephemeral identities to reduce long-term correlation -
@nicfab I appreciate every attempt to make the web more secure by default.
What is your opinion on if I would state: Isn’t encrypted mail also stored forever and readable in the future? As e-mail lacks PFS…
I’m more concerned about that and things like headers being not encrypted and therefore, leaking meta data, than getting my keys to ppl.
If things must change it is probably SMTP that needs a successor with things like double ratchet session keys and key exchange parameters. And while we’re on it, probably some post quantum ability would fit the timeline we are in.
What do you think?
@lennybacon 5/6
The hard part is backward compatibility: email’s universality is both its strength and its prison. Perhaps the way forward is dual: incremental improvements (e.g., WKD, Autocrypt) to make current email “secure enough,” while simultaneously building truly secure alternatives that could eventually replace SMTP. -
@nicfab I appreciate every attempt to make the web more secure by default.
What is your opinion on if I would state: Isn’t encrypted mail also stored forever and readable in the future? As e-mail lacks PFS…
I’m more concerned about that and things like headers being not encrypted and therefore, leaking meta data, than getting my keys to ppl.
If things must change it is probably SMTP that needs a successor with things like double ratchet session keys and key exchange parameters. And while we’re on it, probably some post quantum ability would fit the timeline we are in.
What do you think?
@lennybacon 6/6
So the real question is: migration by evolution or by revolution? -
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@thedarktangent @yawnbox This article is not about email security but about WKD. I have already written about email security and will likely revisit the topic in the near future.
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@nicfab @Blort we know there is an IETF doc about wkd. Delta is probably one of the most standards based messengers out there https://github.com/chatmail/core/blob/main/standards.md
But that doesn't mean any IETF standard is unconditionally a good idea for resilient decentralized messaging.@delta @Blort 1/3 - Absolutely right — IETF standards aren't automatically the best fit for every use case. DeltaChat is actually a great example of this nuanced approach: it leverages email infrastructure creatively while adding features like Autocrypt and ChatMail servers to address some of email's inherent limitations.
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@nicfab @Blort we know there is an IETF doc about wkd. Delta is probably one of the most standards based messengers out there https://github.com/chatmail/core/blob/main/standards.md
But that doesn't mean any IETF standard is unconditionally a good idea for resilient decentralized messaging. -
@nicfab @Blort we know there is an IETF doc about wkd. Delta is probably one of the most standards based messengers out there https://github.com/chatmail/core/blob/main/standards.md
But that doesn't mean any IETF standard is unconditionally a good idea for resilient decentralized messaging. -
@thedarktangent @yawnbox This article is not about email security but about WKD. I have already written about email security and will likely revisit the topic in the near future.
@nicfab @yawnbox I have lived through essentially the same issues with PGP keys in DNS, hashes of SMime keys in DNS, MTA-STS, DANE for SMTP, automatic SMIME using SMILE, etc.
I hope WKD does better! But I fear that without a solution to local email search it will be a victim of its own success, or you will have to put so much information in the subject line to remind you what is in the encrypted body that some privacy is lost.
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@nicfab @yawnbox I have lived through essentially the same issues with PGP keys in DNS, hashes of SMime keys in DNS, MTA-STS, DANE for SMTP, automatic SMIME using SMILE, etc.
I hope WKD does better! But I fear that without a solution to local email search it will be a victim of its own success, or you will have to put so much information in the subject line to remind you what is in the encrypted body that some privacy is lost.
@thedarktangent @yawnbox I share your concern — past attempts (PGP in DNS, DANE, SMILE, etc.) struggled with adoption. WKD isn’t a complete solution, but it’s worth setting up: it removes a key barrier and makes encrypted mail more usable, even if challenges like local search and subject-line leaks remain.
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🔐 Every unencrypted email is readable by 10+ entities and stored forever.
Web Key Directory (WKD) changes this: automatic encryption using your domain name. No manual keys. No central servers. Just cryptographic certainty.
WKD makes encrypted email as simple as HTTPS made web browsing secure.
https://www.nicfab.eu/en/posts/wkd2/
#WebKeyDirectory #WKD #EmailEncryption #Privacy #InfoSec #Cryptography #OpenPGP
@nicfab
Reading the article, I can't see how this works out in a hybrid situation - where not all your email recipients are using WKD. Am I missing something?
You mention the strength of email being its own prison - we need something that would encrypt where possible, and fall back to plaintext where not (with warning). HTTPS was not implemented across the board overnight. -
@nicfab
Reading the article, I can't see how this works out in a hybrid situation - where not all your email recipients are using WKD. Am I missing something?
You mention the strength of email being its own prison - we need something that would encrypt where possible, and fall back to plaintext where not (with warning). HTTPS was not implemented across the board overnight.@grant_h 1/2 You're right — WKD alone doesn't handle the hybrid scenario. It's just key discovery, not the complete solution.
For opportunistic encryption, you need WKD plus smart clients: Thunderbird, DeltaChat, and others already do this — they check for keys via WKD/Autocrypt, encrypt when possible, and fall back to plaintext with warnings. -
@nicfab
Reading the article, I can't see how this works out in a hybrid situation - where not all your email recipients are using WKD. Am I missing something?
You mention the strength of email being its own prison - we need something that would encrypt where possible, and fall back to plaintext where not (with warning). HTTPS was not implemented across the board overnight.@grant_h 2/2 - Think of it like HTTPS adoption:
- WKD = certificate infrastructure (like Let's Encrypt)
- Autocrypt/client logic = protocol negotiation
- Warnings = mixed content alertsSo yes, the ecosystem supports "encrypt when possible" — WKD makes finding keys automatic. The clients handle the graceful degradation you're looking for.
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@grant_h 2/2 - Think of it like HTTPS adoption:
- WKD = certificate infrastructure (like Let's Encrypt)
- Autocrypt/client logic = protocol negotiation
- Warnings = mixed content alertsSo yes, the ecosystem supports "encrypt when possible" — WKD makes finding keys automatic. The clients handle the graceful degradation you're looking for.
@nicfab My use case is a school. Teachers and students. Particularly the counselling staff. It has to be easy and seamless, and resetable by our admins.
Unfortunately, the big companies have no incentive to make our email private, and every incentive to make it easy to join. The precise opposite of so many FOSS projects. We will persevere! -
@nicfab My use case is a school. Teachers and students. Particularly the counselling staff. It has to be easy and seamless, and resetable by our admins.
Unfortunately, the big companies have no incentive to make our email private, and every incentive to make it easy to join. The precise opposite of so many FOSS projects. We will persevere!@grant_h Go ahead!