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Piero Bosio Social Web Site Personale Logo Fediverso

Social Forum federato con il resto del mondo. Non contano le istanze, contano le persone

Ich will deswegen nicht gleich auf Github eine Issue eröffnen.

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7 3 22

Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
  • @benjohn it's not a peer to peer protocol. It's federated - meaning you can pick a provider - like email or the Fediverse.

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  • @daniel I was just checking out the Wikipedia page, thanks for the pointer. … does it work well peer to peer? Identifies seem to be tied to a domain?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP

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  • @daniel@gultsch.social absolutely, the same naive expectations happen often when people think forums are easy to build :smile:

    @pixelschubsi@troet.cafe is definitely on to something about re-using an existing XMPP server in order to avoid the heavy lift. The less the maintenance burden for me, the better as far as I'm concerned.

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  • @julian @pixelschubsi I understand the instinct of wanting to reuse the parts you already have. Protocol parsing, identities, profiles etc. However those will very quickly become extremely minor building blocks in the complexity of instant messaging.
    It's very easy to underestimate the scope and feature creep of IM. I've seen this happening in other places where people initially think that IM is just passing some messages around. And then users demand more features and then you reinvent XMPP.

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  • @julian @daniel so in practice it would probably be the other way round: that heavy lifting you're rightfully afraid of has already been done and even the large tail of the remaining 20% (that in reality need 80% of the effort) are largely done.

    If we were to agree to go the XMPP route, we could have fully-featuered deployment-ready implementations of instant messaging on top of AP identities in weeks to months. If it's something entirely new on top of AP, it's going to take years.

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  • @julian @daniel I'm looking at it from a different perspective. IMO the Mastodon server (as an example) doesn't need to implement XMPP itself (it could, but it doesn't need to). Just like it doesn't implement HTTP itself.

    It could instead rely on existing implementations. Take an existing XMPP server, reverse proxy its websocket endpoint, use the existing Mastodon auth to sign in, and embed an existing XMPP web client in the web frontend.

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  • @silverpill @pixelschubsi @tris you can have a single account (or as I phrased it 'identity and login credentials') across different protocols.
    For example your Google account works across multiple protocols. And even in the federated world we have several cases where email address == xmpp address.
    So to repeat myself: using the same identity is good. Doesn't mean you are locked into ActivityPub if you want to build instant messaging.

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  • To preface — I'm in agreement that ActivityPub probably isn't the best protocol to use for instant messaging. There's a lot of FUD still being spread about XMPP and I am outside of most of those discussions. NodeBB only supports AP at current.

    That said, there's interest in pursuing AP as a delivery protocol for instant messaging because integrating a separate protocol is a heavy lift for everybody involved. It's a heavy lift if you already support AP, and it's a heavy lift when you support no federating protocols at all. Imagine a site looking to federate... now they have to use AP+XMPP? AP+Delta? etc...

    Setting aside all the existing reasons why AP isn't ideal, I will say this... It clears the baseline expectations:

    Messages can get sent via AP :heavy_check_mark: Messages can be privately addressed via existing AP addressing mechanisms :heavy_check_mark:

    That's it. The rest is icing. Really important icing, but for 99% of conversations, icing.

    @daniel@gultsch.social @pixelschubsi@troet.cafe

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Post suggeriti
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    Fedify 1.10.0: Observability foundations for the future debug dashboard Fedify is a #TypeScript framework for building #ActivityPub servers that participate in the #fediverse. It reduces the complexity and boilerplate typically required for ActivityPub implementation while providing comprehensive federation capabilities. We're excited to announce #Fedify 1.10.0, a focused release that lays critical groundwork for future debugging and observability features. Released on December 24, 2025, this version introduces infrastructure improvements that will enable the upcoming debug dashboard while maintaining full backward compatibility with existing Fedify applications. This release represents a transitional step toward Fedify 2.0.0, introducing optional capabilities that will become standard in the next major version. The changes focus on enabling richer observability through OpenTelemetry enhancements and adding prefix scanning capabilities to the key–value store interface. Enhanced OpenTelemetry instrumentation Fedify 1.10.0 significantly expands OpenTelemetry instrumentation with span events that capture detailed ActivityPub data. These enhancements enable richer observability and debugging capabilities without relying solely on span attributes, which are limited to primitive values. The new span events provide complete activity payloads and verification status, making it possible to build comprehensive debugging tools that show the full context of federation operations: activitypub.activity.received event on activitypub.inbox span — records the full activity JSON, verification status (activity verified, HTTP signatures verified, Linked Data signatures verified), and actor information activitypub.activity.sent event on activitypub.send_activity span — records the full activity JSON and target inbox URL activitypub.object.fetched event on activitypub.lookup_object span — records the fetched object's type and complete JSON-LD representation Additionally, Fedify now instruments previously uncovered operations: activitypub.fetch_document span for document loader operations, tracking URL fetching, HTTP redirects, and final document URLs activitypub.verify_key_ownership span for cryptographic key ownership verification, recording actor ID, key ID, verification result, and the verification method used These instrumentation improvements emerged from work on issue #234 (Real-time ActivityPub debug dashboard). Rather than introducing a custom observer interface as originally proposed in #323, we leveraged Fedify's existing OpenTelemetry infrastructure to capture rich federation data through span events. This approach provides a standards-based foundation that's composable with existing observability tools like Jaeger, Zipkin, and Grafana Tempo. Distributed trace storage with FedifySpanExporter Building on the enhanced instrumentation, Fedify 1.10.0 introduces FedifySpanExporter, a new OpenTelemetry SpanExporter that persists ActivityPub activity traces to a KvStore. This enables distributed tracing support across multiple nodes in a Fedify deployment, which is essential for building debug dashboards that can show complete request flows across web servers and background workers. The new @fedify/fedify/otel module provides the following types and interfaces: import { MemoryKvStore } from "@fedify/fedify"; import { FedifySpanExporter } from "@fedify/fedify/otel"; import { BasicTracerProvider, SimpleSpanProcessor, } from "@opentelemetry/sdk-trace-base"; const kv = new MemoryKvStore(); const exporter = new FedifySpanExporter(kv, { ttl: Temporal.Duration.from({ hours: 1 }), }); const provider = new BasicTracerProvider(); provider.addSpanProcessor(new SimpleSpanProcessor(exporter)); The stored traces can be queried for display in debugging interfaces: // Get all activities for a specific trace const activities = await exporter.getActivitiesByTraceId(traceId); // Get recent traces with summary information const recentTraces = await exporter.getRecentTraces({ limit: 100 }); The exporter supports two storage strategies depending on the KvStore capabilities. When the list() method is available (preferred), it stores individual records with keys like [prefix, traceId, spanId]. When only cas() is available, it uses compare-and-swap operations to append records to arrays stored per trace. This infrastructure provides the foundation for implementing a comprehensive debug dashboard as a custom SpanExporter, as outlined in the updated implementation plan for issue #234. Optional list() method for KvStore interface Fedify 1.10.0 adds an optional list() method to the KvStore interface for enumerating entries by key prefix. This method enables efficient prefix scanning, which is useful for implementing features like distributed trace storage, cache invalidation by prefix, and listing related entries. interface KvStore { // ... existing methods list?(prefix?: KvKey): AsyncIterable<KvStoreListEntry>; } When the prefix parameter is omitted or empty, list() returns all entries in the store. This is useful for debugging and administrative purposes. All official KvStore implementations have been updated to support this method: MemoryKvStore — filters in-memory keys by prefix SqliteKvStore — uses LIKE query with JSON key pattern PostgresKvStore — uses array slice comparison RedisKvStore — uses SCAN with pattern matching and key deserialization DenoKvStore — delegates to Deno KV's built-in list() API WorkersKvStore — uses Cloudflare Workers KV list() with JSON key prefix pattern While list() is currently optional to give existing custom KvStore implementations time to add support, it will become a required method in Fedify 2.0.0 (tracked in issue #499). This migration path allows implementers to gradually adopt the new capability throughout the 1.x release cycle. The addition of list() support was implemented in pull request #500, which also included the setup of proper testing infrastructure for WorkersKvStore using Vitest with @cloudflare/vitest-pool-workers. NestJS 11 and Express 5 support Thanks to a contribution from Cho Hasang (@crohasang@hackers.pub), the @fedify/nestjs package now supports NestJS 11 environments that use Express 5. The peer dependency range for Express has been widened to ^4.0.0 || ^5.0.0, eliminating peer dependency conflicts in modern NestJS projects while maintaining backward compatibility with Express 4. This change, implemented in pull request #493, keeps the workspace catalog pinned to Express 4 for internal development and test stability while allowing Express 5 in consuming applications. What's next Fedify 1.10.0 serves as a stepping stone toward the upcoming 2.0.0 release. The optional list() method introduced in this version will become required in 2.0.0, simplifying the interface contract and allowing Fedify internals to rely on prefix scanning being universally available. The enhanced #OpenTelemetry instrumentation and FedifySpanExporter provide the foundation for implementing the debug dashboard proposed in issue #234. The next steps include building the web dashboard UI with real-time activity lists, filtering, and JSON inspection capabilities—all as a separate package that leverages the standards-based observability infrastructure introduced in this release. Depending on the development timeline and feature priorities, there may be additional 1.x releases before the 2.0.0 migration. For developers building custom KvStore implementations, now is the time to add list() support to prepare for the eventual 2.0.0 upgrade. The implementation patterns used in the official backends provide clear guidance for various storage strategies. Acknowledgments Special thanks to Cho Hasang (@crohasang@hackers.pub) for the NestJS 11 compatibility improvements, and to all community members who provided feedback and testing for the new observability features. For the complete list of changes, bug fixes, and improvements, please refer to the CHANGES.md file in the repository. #fedidev #release
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    @thisismissem Caching is why the server hosting the context can declare wrong term definitions even if it only lied in the past.
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    @iftas I will check tomorrow!
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    @martyn @reiver Multiple CVs: I thought of the CV as an actor. So having multiple CVs is just having multiple actors on your instance.