This Isn't a Battle

[peteorrall@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@stefano Great post! I've been using #Linux #FreeBSD for about two decades and want to share my experiences. For context, Linux became my daily driver and I dabbled in FreeBSD on the side.

As a newcomer to both the #technology and #culture of #Linux and the BSDs, *back then* there was more toxicity. And by toxicity I mean abrasive and unhelpful responses ("RTFM!") or some kind of "l337" attitudes in various mailing lists and forums. This, of course, was before YouTube and Reddit, where the former mediums were more prevalent.

Some Linux distros were friendlier than others. In those days, the #Debian mailing lists and forums were a rough place for newcomers and it drove a lot of people away. I left the forums because of that. I rarely post to the mailing lists but for other reasons.

At some point, there was considerable effort to improve the etiquette in said mediums, particularly the mailing lists. Sure, some fiery disagreements can take place but overall people are friendly and welcoming.

FreeBSD, on the other hand, has been a more positive experience. Yes, there are people who are vocal about their contempt for Linux, but they aren't disrespectful to other people.

Having witnessed both communities grow and change over the years, there's definitely less toxicity and FreeBSD is still a more welcoming community.

[tgeusch@social.vivaldi.net]

@stefano thanks for your post.

I had read the post you're referencing yesterday, and had come away with a certain sense of unease. Thanks for putting some words to the unease, because after further reflection it really is the "battle" aspect where the unease came from. That, and the unnecessary and gratuitous side swipes like the "boomer" references.

Part of this may have come from the fact that I've got a bit of PTSD from an ex-manager who liked to make development tooling decisions based on what tool was "winning" in the marketplace, with only scant consideration if we already had working and suitable tooling...

At the end of the day, the ecosystem grows richer and stronger if we have alternatives large and small instead of the system to rule them all that would eventually need to be tossed into a volcano.

I say this as someone who uses Windows, macOS, several flavours of Linux, FreeBSD and OpenBSD at this time and would probably run an old Solaris box somewhere if he could find a use for it.

[stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@tgeusch This is the uneasy feeling I had yesterday evening. I started writing the post this morning because I wanted to sleep on it. The original author did not write a bad or offensive post, and it reflects their experience so I respect that. Still, it feels more like a rant against a couple of people who behaved poorly or were unwilling to change FreeBSD because they believed there was a better way to do things.
Anyway, I am glad when people write these posts if they feel the need to. This way we get to see different points of view, and that helps all of us.

[tgeusch@social.vivaldi.net]

@stefano Very good point that the original post wasn’t bad or offensive, and in a sense I wished the author had had a better experience.

[stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@tgeusch Exactly.

[ricardo@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@stefano I really wonder *where* Yorick interacted with those alleged BSD users ... Twitter?, Reddit? 🙈

[stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@ricardo I think discord.

[pinkopanterata@techhub.social]

@stefano
Stefano, this person is maybe a the bigger FreeBSD hater from many years...
https://vez.mrsk.me/freebsd-defaults

[stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@pinkopanterata yes, I've encountered this page in the past

[pauamma@mstdn.social]

@stefano I'm glad for you that you haven't had damaging encounters with toxic people in the FreeBSD community or their enablers.

[josephholsten@mstdn.social]

@stefano I had a great conversation the other day with some FreeBSD folks about how to position it competitively when the user believes they need k8s instead.
Sure, plenty of k8s flame was thrown, but at the end we agreed that for the user’s particular needs (some workloads were Linux only codebases, multi-cloud deployment not cost-optimized) k8s was really a better choice than nomad+jails or a custom orchestration setup.

[stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@josephholsten exactly. A couple of days ago I proposed to a client a new virtualization server (actually three). It will be powered by Proxmox as the client needs a management interface and is moving some manually created KVM qcow2 files.
I'll probably propose bhyve when Sylve will be ready but, for now, their problem will be solved by using Proxmox. And I'm happy it will, and I'm happy to do it.

[stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@pauamma oh, I have. I never said that there are no toxic people in the BSD community. There are. But the majority is composed of great people, all around the world.
So I'd not say it's a toxic community because of some bad people. Even if toxicity should never be a part (even if small) of a healthy community.